From the King Of Blogging, Sean Conners. Various articles and op/ed's on just about anything from A to Z. Politics, religion, entertainment and whatever else seems interesting at the moment. Members and non-members alike are welcomed to participate in th
and Condi's response For The White House
Published on September 27, 2006 By Sean Conners aka SConn1 In Current Events
Over the weekend, news junkies were treated to a series of "back and forths" concerning former President Bill Clinton's interview with Fox news anchor Chris Wallace. Wallace, claiming e-mails had forced him to ask the questions, pressured Bill Clinton over what he did to stop terrorism and Al Quaeda during his tenure. Clinton resonded with emotion, pointing out where he tried, but regrettably failed. he also pointed out that his counterterrorism chief presented the next administration with their plan to stop Osama Bin Laden. Condelezza rice fired back, claiming that no such plan had been offered and that they were at least as aggressive on terrorism before 9/11 as the Clinton team.

which is true? Let's check some records....

According to the 9/11 commission, generally regarded as the primary source in looking for established and evidenced facts in matters concerning terrorism, shows us the following...

As the Clinton administration drew to a close, Clarke and his staff developed a policy paper of their own [which] incorporated the CIA’s new ideas from the Blue Sky memo, and posed several near-term policy options. Clarke and his staff proposed a goal to “roll back” al Qaeda over a period of three to five years …[including] covert aid to the Northern Alliance, covert aid to Uzbekistan, and renewed Predator flights in March 2001. A sentence called for military action to destroy al Qaeda command-and control targets and infrastructure and Taliban military and command assets. The paper also expressed concern about the presence of al Qaeda operatives in the United States.” [p. 197]

Clarke, who also worked for the Bush administration, wrote Condoleezza Rice a memo as soon as the Bush administration took office, stating, “[W]e urgently need…a Principals level review of the al Qida network.” His request was denied.

Hmmmmm....sounds like a plan to me. Score, Clinton 1 / White House 0

But what about Clinton's claim that the Bush administration was neglegent in dealing with terrorism and more focused on their own agenda, topped by "anti-ballistic" missile defense plans that were popular in the cold war, which had ended a decade before.?

Here, there is lots of evidence to support Clinton's claim. Read on...

Bush Said “Most Urgent Threat” Was Ballistic Missiles. In a speech on May 1, 2001, Bush said, “Unlike the Cold War, today’s most urgent threat stems not from thousands of ballistic missiles in the Soviet hands, but from a small number of missiles in the hands of these states, states for whom terror and blackmail are a way of life.” [Bush, 5/1/01](thinkprogress.org)

also...

Bush’s Priorities Did Not Include Al Qaeda. “After his first meeting with NATO heads of state in Brussels in June 2001, Bush outlined the five top defense issues discussed with the closest U.S. allies. Missile defense was at the top of the list, followed by developing a NATO relationship with Russia, working in common purpose with Europe, increased defense spending in NATO countries, and enlarging the alliance to include former East European countries. The only reference to extremists was in Macedonia, where Bush said regional forces were seeking to subvert a new democracy.” [Washington Post, 4/1/04]

Frank Gaffney, conservative columnist, showed where the priorities were in his column on March 13, 2001, entitled "The Bush Doctrine"...


For example, last week he served notice on South Korean President Kim Dae Jung that the latter's so-called "Sunshine Policy" of detente with North Korea could not be safely pursued with a regime in Pyongyang that was an unreliable partner in disarmament and other agreements. He pointedly contradicted Communist China's lies concerning the involvement of its nationals in beefing up Saddam's air defense network -- so as to make it a more lethal threat to American personnel patrolling Iraq's skies. And he has explicitly condemned the genocide-, terrorist- and slavery-sponsoring regime in Sudan. More to the point, President Bush is appointing experienced individuals to key Defense and State Department posts who have for three years urged the United States to recognize a provisional government of Free Iraq and strip Saddam's regime of the trappings of international legitimacy. While the messages sent by various statements about "smart sanctions" and renewing international inspections of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction programs have been confusing, to say the least, the sorts of steps long advocated by senior members of the new Bush team would -- if adopted as part of a comprehensive effort -- have the greatest chance of undermining and ultimately bringing an end to the Iraqi despot's hold on power. Other enemies of freedom around the world are also worthy targets of a Bush Doctrine challenging their legitimacy. Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, Russia's Vladimir Putin, Libya's Muamar Quadafi, Cuba's Fidel Castro and Venezuela's Hugo Chavez come to mind.

Less than a week before 9/11 the emphisis was all on missile defense and what the russians were up to...

If enough legislators are rattled or bamboozled by the cacophony of arguments against missile defense, they may vote to cut or otherwise hobble Mr. Bush's missile defense program. That would have a decidedly pernicious effect on the Russians. As former SDI director and arms control negotiator Amb. Henry Cooper has noted, the Kremlin will have no further incentive to agree jointly to end the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty regime that precludes development, testing and deployment of effective U.S. missile defenses. This would compel the President to proceed, as he has vowed to do, unilaterally. The moment of truth on missile defense has arrived. Congress should not be distracted from the historic task at hand of defending America by those whose efforts to bleed the Bush anti-missile program to death risk a far bloodier fate for all of us.

and of course, the Iraq issue was viewed like this before 9/11....

At his press conference last Thursday, President Bush reiterated a commitment he has made repeatedly in recent months: Saddam Hussein will not be allowed to have weapons of mass destruction (WMD). As the President put it: "The primary goal is to make it clear to Saddam that we expect him to be a peaceful neighbor in the region and we expect him not to develop weapons of mass destruction. And if we find him doing so, there will be a consequence."

Frank then stirs the nuclear rumours around...

it appears his arsenal includes more than just chemical and biological arms. Dreadful as these are, the Butcher of Baghdad may also have acquired atomic and perhaps even thermonuclear weapons, as well. It has been universally recognized that, given the well-established state of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons programs before Operation Desert Storm and the international inspections that followed it, Saddam could resume production of various toxic chemical agents and strains of lethal viruses in fairly short order once he forced the withdrawal of inspectors with a mandate to conduct intrusive on-site monitoring. (This actually was the best-case assessment; given the comprehensive secretiveness and inveterate deviousness of the Iraqi regime, it is entirely possible that its covert programs in these areas were actually never suspended.) Of even greater concern, however, was the prospect that -- left to his own devices -- Saddam would quickly reconstitute his bid to build at least crude atomic weapons. If a report in the Sunday Times of London is accurate, however, Saddam already has as many as three such weapons and perhaps as many as three of the far more powerful thermonuclear ones. The Times article, entitled "Was this Saddam's Bomb?" draws upon a wealth of circumstantial evidence and debriefings of Iraqi defectors

But Gaffney is confident the new team will take decisive action against Iraq...

As National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice put it on Thursday: "The President made clear when he was running for President that he did not believe that the Comprehensive Test Ban treaty furthered the non-proliferation goals that we do think are extremely important because it was not verifiable, because it didn't include certain parties, and because it certainly did nothing about the states that we are most concerned about...." Any further thought of resuscitating this treaty should now be moot. Finally, these revelations -- taken together with other evidence that Saddam is back in the weapons of mass destruction business -- oblige Mr. Bush to make good his threat that there will be "consequences." Fortunately, many of his senior advisors (including Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Deputy Secretary of Defense-designate Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Secretary of State-designate Richard Armitage, Under Secretary of State-designate John Bolton, Under Secretary of Defense-designate Dov Zakheim and a number of others said to be under consideration for top posts [notably, Zalmay Khalilzad, Jeffrey Gedmin and Douglas Feith]) have developed a blue-print for such consequences.

Gaffney wrote dozens of columns in 2001 before September 11th. Over and over again he praises the Bush team for ignoring treaties, trying to build more missles to fight russia and china with and like the administration, had been itching to go back to Iraq since 1991. Gaffney, in his columns is confident, if not smug about the prospects of taking Saddam out before 9/11 based on false evidence and lies.

Not once, during the administrations 1st 8 months in office, does the conservative mouthpiece for the administration mention Osama Bin laden or terrorism as any kind of threat, or even at all.

It was clear where this administration's priorities were, and where they were not.

Score Clinton 2 / White House 0

In looking around, I have yet to find any references by the administration pre-9/11 to Al Quaeda or Osama Bin Laden. I have checked dozens of conservative columnists, the speeches given by the president and senior officials and can find absolutely nothing. When Clinton did take military action against Bin Laden, he was criticized of "wagging the dog" by many republicans, including some in congress.

Bill wins, hands down.








Comments (Page 1)
3 Pages1 2 3 
on Sep 27, 2006

Bill wins what?

During the first 8 months that the Bush administration wasn't too great about terrorism? Fine.  They weren't.

Neither was Clinton in the 8 years he was in charge.

I've yet to see anyone assert that Bush was somehow a terrorist expert in those first 8 months.  Where Clinton gets into trouble is where he acts like he was some hawk when it came to dealing with terrorists which is nonsense.

on Sep 27, 2006
Clinton 2-0. But then the next quarter is entered. Time to action:

Bush - 9 months.
Clinton - 8 Years.

Final score, Clinton 2-8.

I think they call that record a cellar dwellar.
on Sep 27, 2006
I just love how the righties have been assailing the actions of Bubba on this subject. All they are doing is trying to draw attention away from the fact dubya and his ilk didn't do squat until september 12th.

Face it, Bubba did everything he could in a pre-9/11 world. dubya on the other hand could have been a hell of a lot more proactive.
on Sep 27, 2006
this article has been at the top of the joeuser homepage all afternoon,,,it's now 5:10pm, and no one has yet to refute anything said. just a little nonsense and rhetoric.

on Sep 27, 2006

What exactly is there to refute? 

You seem to be arguing that Clinton was no worse than Bush in his first 8 months. Okay. Fine.

But that's not what Clinton was arguing. He was arguing that he was aggressively fighting terrorism and nothing you wrote backs up that claim.

on Sep 28, 2006
no, here is what clinton claimed...1) he tried, but failed. bush loyalists claim that clinton didn't try.
2) he gave the next administration a plan to deal with the situation. bush loyalists say he didn't
here's what the white house said..1) clinton's people never gave them a plan. i contend they did
2) they were at least as aggresive on terrorism as the administration pre 9/11. i contend they lowered the priority status

i contend that the white house is lying on both counts and should be called out on it. no one i have seen has been able to counter the actual claims made by clinton, like him or not. and the white house position that condi put forth is just an out and out falsehood from everything i have seen.
on Sep 28, 2006
>According to the 9/11 commission, generally regarded as the primary source in looking for
>established and evidenced facts in matters concerning terrorism

you must be fucking shitting me
"generally regarded as the primary source"
by WHO?
those who cant think for themselves maybe?????
on Sep 28, 2006
What's your point?

Nobody was sufficiently clued in to the terrorist threat before 9/11, not Bush, not Clinton.

How is "trying for 8 years and failing" somehow better than doing no worse for 8 months? Clinton's administration made a nice CYA move at transition, that's it. And I haven't heard Bush say his administration was any better prepared to deal with terrorism before 9/11 than Clinton's. Not even the almighty & all-wise NYT had a clue before 9/11. The 9/11 Commission fleshed out details of facts which were largely self-evident. Only others have attempted to put a cause-and-effect spin on them in an effort to lay "political" blame, as opposed to institutional blame.
on Sep 28, 2006
Nobody was sufficiently clued in to the terrorist threat before 9/11, not Bush, not Clinton


'nobody' is far too restrictive. what about richard clarke, john o'neill, michael scheuer and his team members?

on Sep 28, 2006
Nobody was sufficiently clued in to the terrorist threat before 9/11, not Bush, not Clinton

not true. the fact of the matter is there is a clear pattern of evidence that the bush team not only understood the problem less than the clinton team, they actually lowered the priority which is shown by the demotion of clarke, the refusal to hold the principal meeting concerning terrorism and much more.

anyone who remembers the bitter 2000 election should also remember the "anti-clinton" sentiment that ran amuck over bush supporters. there was a "whatever clinton did, we're gonna reverse it or do the opposite" attitude. anyone who denies there was that attitude is simply lying. it appears that this sentiment included terrorism as being one of the wasteful, unnecessary or reckless programs of the clintons that they would put a stop to and get back to the more favorable "missle defense" plan they were touting steadily and hard for their entire term up until 9/11.

condi's response after 9/11 that "we could not ever imagine people running airplanes into buildings" was even false.

the facts are that several plots had been discovered (i could gloat that it was during clinton's tenure, but i won't) before 9/11 involving this very thing. there was an eiffel tower plot, the phillipines plans that were stopped amongst others...also, the aug 6th PDB mentioned the possibilities of something like this happening. i guess the administration thought a kamakazi was just a drink too.

the operative word in condi's statement must have been "we."

this article is now a day old,,,and still no refuting facts.

on Sep 28, 2006

no, here is what clinton claimed...1) he tried, but failed. bush loyalists claim that clinton didn't try.
2) he gave the next administration a plan to deal with the situation. bush loyalists say he didn't
here's what the white house said..1) clinton's people never gave them a plan. i contend they did
2) they were at least as aggresive on terrorism as the administration pre 9/11. i contend they lowered the priority status

1) Bush loyalists say he didn't try as hard as he could.  He could have killed Bin Laden but there was a lack of will to do so. No one (either side) thought terrorism was a big of enough deal to go that extra mile.  Where right-wingers object is when Clinton argues he did everythign he could do to get Bin Laden which is nonsense.

2) He didn't give the next administration a plan to deal with the situation. He claims he did but there's no evidence of that.  Richard Clarke says they didn't.

3) You claim that they lowered the priority (Bush did). There's no evidence that the priority was altered. All evidence I've seen seems to indicate that terrorism operated the same low priority it did under Clinton.

Since you apparently didn't watch the whole interview (I did) he made a few bold claims which are easily refuted:

1) That he drew up "battle plans" plans to invade Afghanistan. He didn't.

2) That he provided the next administration a comprehensive plan to deal with Al Qaeda. He didn't.

3) That he did "Everything in his power" to take out Bin Laden.  He didn't.

4) That Republicans claimed he was "obsessed" with getting Bin Laden. They didn't.

5) That Republicans forced him out of Somalia.  They didn't.

What you have essentially put together is a long strawman argument.  The problem isn't that Clinton didn't get Bin Laden. Before 9/11, nobody in power really thought Bin Laden was that big of a deal.  The problem is Clinton trying to rewrite history.

on Sep 28, 2006
try again draginol,,,,no evidence supporting your claims and trying to divert and expand the subject won't wash.

the problem is condelezza lied, again...and none of the right wants to call her on it,,,again. she is a disgrace that gets coddled by the right because they think she makes em look racially diverse.

i have presented plenty of evidence concerning the points i am discussing, and could go on and on with more, but you or no one has produced any evidence to the contrary. just your own opinions and red herrings attempting to change the subject to something more favorable.
on Sep 28, 2006

You didn't address a single thing I just pointed out. You just claim it's wrong. 

My final entry here, -- believe whatever you want to hear. If you want to close your eyes and claim that you've "proven" some "truth" then be my guest.  Nothing in your "article" contradicts what I pointed out.

on Sep 28, 2006
i wrote the article,,,it's up to you to refute what i said,,,not the other way around, nice try!

and most of what you pointed out have nothing to do with the points i contended.

coming in and throwing a bunch of junk up and challenging me doesn't wash, it's a red herring and i ain't playin.

this is my article...if you wish to make additional, nongermaine points or discuss another subject, write your own article.

of course, you can come back now with "i don't have the right to tell you where and what you can write, question, etc, etc,,," and that's true...the above is advice, not an order, of course. i'm just saying i won't even address anything nongermaine to the subject. i.e.-i ain't taking the bait. sorry.


on Sep 28, 2006
or ya could just move me down the list, lol

take care man:)
3 Pages1 2 3