From the King Of Blogging, Sean Conners. Various articles and op/ed's on just about anything from A to Z. Politics, religion, entertainment and whatever else seems interesting at the moment. Members and non-members alike are welcomed to participate in th
A lot of talk goes on about the founders and what they saw our nation developing at it's birth. We constantly look for ways to show how the founders would have handled a modern issue based on the Constitution, the formal early acts of governement, and things they said and wrote during their lives.

One issue, the issue of gay marriage and civil unions isn't really covered in the Constitution. And it really wasn't an issue at all in colonial America. Where as it surely existed, writing about sex, especially gay sex, wasn't very common amongst the founders. And we really didn't have any treaties or court rulings involving gay citizens to refer to.

But we do have George Washsington. And where as Washington never, to my knowledge, spoke about same sex marriage per se, he had a deffinite attitude about people and rights.

Here's what George said...

"As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality."

Now take that statement into the current debate. does Washington essentially endorse homosexuals marrying the same as anyone else?

Well, no, not specifically. But I don'tthink it's even a stretch to say that Washington would be 100% on board where it comes to civil unions. In fact, if Washington were a politician today in the town that bears his name, he'd probably lead the charge. Or at least endorse the bill allowing same sex couples to have the same "protections of civil government" i.e. - civil unions, as a heterosexual couple. After all, they do, on the whole, certainly meet the other requirements set out by Washington.

I guess that would make Washington and any founder who felt the same the target of right wing pundits like Hannity, Coulter, Prager and Limbaugh. And the scurge of sermons by Falwell, Robertson, Schueller and the rest of their ilk.

I don't know whether Washington would quibble over the the terminology of "marriage" but I am pretty sure he wouldn't be trying to ban it either. After all, none of the rights that our founders put in the bill of rights banned anything. We didn't get that stupid until the 20th century when a bunch of misguided loons decided to ban booze via the Constitution. Fortunately, our representatives repealed that in short order after a decade or so of bootlegging and rampant crime replaced a rational system that could be regulated and taxed.

Comments (Page 4)
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on Jun 16, 2007
}up until 1967, it was illegal in many states for an interracial couple to marry. states like alabama refused to change their state constitution until the year 2000. opponents of interracial marriage damned it as "unnatural." the law pre 67 was such that people thought that it was a "choice" to love a person of another race...and they disapproved of that choice. but in the end, reason won out over hatred and bigotry...eve nwhen it was masked in laws that appeared to prevent people from making those "unnatural choices.""


Lol, who you decide to marry IS a choice, Sean, and if you decide to marry someone of another race, that is a choice, too. Are you now trying to say that we are also predisposed to marry people of another race? I think you ought to think about that one a little harder.

I have no problem with people marrying someone from another race, but if you are trying to say that we are born to interracial marriage in the same way you're saying people are born gay I'm gonna laugh my ass off...

on Jun 16, 2007
Are you now trying to say that we are also predisposed to marry people of another race?


nice twist and spin. that was an example of where the courts defended minority rights.
on Jun 16, 2007
according to this logic, pot should be legal as well, cause washington grew it


He did?


yes he did...i went out and grabbed something to back it up (there is plenty out there)..i happened to copy something that lists him and 15 other famous people who did (including jefferson)...i know it's overkill, just thought you might find it interesting. (btw, "hemp" is another name for marijuana...it is the industrial term..."hemp" fields contain both male and female plants, people who grow today, usually weed out the male plants to reduce seeds and make bigger buds.)

1. SHAYKH AZ-ZAWAJI HAYDAR (c. 1150-1221)


Persian founder of the Haydari order of Sufis, he is credited with discovering hashish and cultivating hemp in his monastery in Khurasan. By his order, hemp was planted around his tomb, which is still visited by Sufi pilgrims.

2. JALAL-UD-DIN MUHAMMAD (1483-1530)


First Mogul emperor of India, he loved hashish sweetmeats and planted hemp near Delhi. His grandson Akbar the Great (1542-1605) expanded the empire to include Afghanistan and Bengal and systemized hemp and poppy cultivation throughout northern India.

3. GARCIA DA ORTA (c. 1490-1570)


Portugese physician in Goa, he grew marijuana and other medicines and discussed their use in his Cooloquies on the Simples and Drugs of India (1563). The third book printed in India, it was widely consulted by herbalists during the Age of Exploration.

4. FRANCOIS RABELAIS (1494?-1553)


French author of Gargantua and Pantagruel, he grew up on a hemp farm which his father had inherited. His intimate knowledge of hemp cultivation is revealed in the chapter on the herb Pantagruelion in book 3 of Pantagruel.

5. LEONHARD FUCHS (1501-1566)


German botanist, he grew marijuana and other drug plants and had his artists draw them from life for his book De Historia Stirpium (1542). Fuchs gave the plant its present botanical name, Cannabis sativa.

6. JAMES I (1566-1625)


Hoping to establish a colonial fiber source, the King of England allowed gardens for hemp and flax cultivation to be given to each Jamestown colonist in 1611; this was the first private property in Virginia. In 1619 the first representative government in the colonies, the Virginia General Assembly, required all householders having any hemp seed to plant it the next season. This was America's first marijuana law.

7. WILLIAM BYRD II (1674-1744)

In 1737 this Virginia planter, trying to collect bounties for hemp offered by the British government, sowed hemp on his 180,000-acre plantation called Westover. Byrd reported: "It thrives very well in this climate, but labour being much dearer than in Muscovey, as well as the freight, we can make no earnings of it."

8. CAROLUS LINNAEUS (1707-1778)

Swedish father of modern botany and inventor of the binomial classification system for plants and animals, in 1753 he subsumed all varieties of hemp under the name Cannabis sativa. Linnaeus raised marijuana on his windowsill while investigating plant sexuality in 1760.

9. GEORGE WASHINGTON (1732-1799)

This U.S. president imported hemp seeds from all over the world and planted them in his vineyard at Mt. Vernon from 1765 to 1796. He hoped to establish an American hemp industry able to compete with those of England, Russia and Italy.

10. THOMAS JEFFERSON (1743-1826)

One of the most versatile U.S. presidents, he planted an acre of hemp at Monticello in 1811, wrote a pamphlet on hemp cultivation, and invented a power machine for breaking hemp in 1815.

11. HENRY CLAY (1777-1852)

U.S. senator from Kentucky, he got a bill passed in 1810 that required the navy to purchase American hemp products rather than imported ones. This established hemp as the foremost cash crop of Kentucky, a position it held until the Civil War.

12. SIR ROBERT CHRISTISON (1797-1882)

Scottish toxicologist and president of the British Medical Association, Dr. Christison cultivated marijuana in his father's botanical garden at the Edinburgh College of Physicians. His noted works on plant drugs are still consulted by modern pharmacologists.

13. THEODORE ROOSEVELT (1858-1919)

This U.S. president established a federal "poison farm" in Washington D.C., in 1904, near the site now occupied by the Pentagon. Fields of marijuana, opium, coca, and other drugs were planted so the U.S. wouldn't have to import them.

14. HENRY FORD (1863-1947)

Pioneer automobile manufacturer, he cultivated a marijuana crop for "experimental purposes," which he surrounded with a cyclone fence. Supposedly the plot was destroyed after his death, but his family later found the marijuana growing wild.

15. LYNDON BAINES JOHNSON (1908-1973)

While U.S. president, he signed a bill establishing the federal marijuana farm at the University of Mississippi in July, 1968, as a research center for the botany, chemistry, and cultivation of the drug. This farm now supplies most of the marijuana used for official medical research in America.

16. TOMMY RETTIG (1941- )

Former child star of the TV series Lassie, Rettig was arrested in 1972 for growing marijuana on his ranch outside San Luis Obispo, Calif.



on Jun 16, 2007
"nice twist and spin. that was an example of where the courts defended minority rights."


You sure? What you said was:

"the law pre 67 was such that people thought that it was a "choice" to love a person of another race...and they disapproved of that choice."


Seemed like you were saying that they thought it was a choice and that it wasn't. Sorry if it seemed like I was twisted something, it seemed twisted the way I found it. If you are saying that government can't limit our choices in life, I can give you bunches they cram down my throat every day.

I've been reminded on TV at least three times today that the state troopers are looking to catch me without my seatbelt on...
on Jun 17, 2007
sc, you missed it.

i never said i thought it was a wrong choice, just that it was a choice.

having sex with someone the same gender as you is not a natural biological need.
you've heard it all before, but the reason for having sex, biologically, is procreation. blah, blah.

i would think that gay being a choice would be a better seller for the thing. why take pride in something that just happened to you.
make a choice, and stand behind the decision. that is something to be proud of.
if you were born gay, i don't get the parades.

gay groups, who have an agenda of making gay seem as normal as possible,(also, don't confuse gays groups with all gay people, any more than you should confuse al sharpton and all black people.)think being born gay makes it seems more legit. i have no proof of that, just a feeling i get.

another thing i have noticed about discussing these things with gay people, or gay defenders, is that it always seems to come back to somehow being afraid or confused by gay people. one of my family members is gay, and one of the members of my band is gay, and in a civil union with their long time partner. one of the best friends i ever had, and who i miss very much, was gay. i am not scared of gay people. i am not confused.

all i'm saying, is that "being yourself" or not, everything you do or don't do is a choice. it's a cop-out to try and lay the responsibility for anything you do on anything but your own beautiful free will.
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