So when are you joining the military, Sean?  If not, where do you get off calling people names like chicken hawk?

What sacrifice have you made?

I certainly supported the removal of Saddam.  I don't support the nation building nonsense that followed but I supported taking out an open enemy of the United States in a post 9/11 world.

So when are you joining the military, Sean? If not, where do you get off calling people names like chicken hawk?

i took the asvab, auditioned and took the military physical my senior year of high school. the audition was in virginia for their music program. i passed the audition, aced the asvab and flunked the hearing test due to my frequent exposure to loudness (at the time i was playing in a punk rock band and in 2 jazz groups) and the military raising their standard 1 month before.

so, unlike dick cheney and crew, i didn't take 5 deferments or the like. i tried to serve and was willing to. maybe that's why i admire our military and resent the way the neocons use them like chess pawns for their games. that's where i get off. they avoided service, i didn't.

What sacrifice have you made?

you are right. i haven't sacrificed enough, nor has 95% of our country. but that isn't due to a lack of will either but rather due to a lack of leadership.

So in short, you haven't served in the military.

Personally, I don't care that you haven't.  But you are the one in the glass house throwing stones.

You may not like Bill Kristol but personally attacking him because of his political philsophy is infantile.

And boo hoo to the military wife whining.  It's an all-volunteer force.

I just find calling people "chicken hawks" to be repulsive.  It would be like me calling you parasite because you don't contribute as much to society as I do.  It would be disgusting and irrelevant. Your opinions are valid and invalid on their own, not based on what you do in real life.

I agree. My husband has served over twenty years...he has deployed to the desert (and this is not counting his remote assignments of a year) seven times (that I can remember) and only one of those deployments was a typical AF 4 month...the rest were longer with the longest being 15 months.

I do feel bad for military families. It's hard. At the same time though I think...its the friggin military. Everything they do is about war and/or intelligence gathering...the day I was sworn in I knew I could be "at war" my entire time in service. It's a gamble.

I tell people considering the military to really think hard about it. It's like stepping up to a craps table. You can have a really good run, or you can lose everything. But whining about it after stepping up, throwing, and losing is useless. Better to walk away from the game.

I actually wouldn't mind a draft. I think if its important enough for ANY American soldier to die for, then its important enough to demand every citizen pull their share.

Unpopular opinions I know.

that's not what you asked. you asked "when i was joining" as if i had a choice there and were choosing to avoid service.

that is false. fact is i joined, or tried to join, depending on how you define it...and was rejected due to failing the physical.

fact is, if the military would take my hearing challenged ass, i'd serve. and i never endorsed the war in iraq. that does indeed seperate me clearly from the likes of bill kristol, dick cheney and paul wolfowitz.

and that aside, i'm fine with calling bill kristol and those like him a chickenhawk, to me, that's what he is. if you don't like it, ok...objection is so noted.




i wrote on that issue recently tova, i'd be curious to your thoughts on that view...WWW Link

So, what would you guys have us do?

Personally, I want to win this this and bring everyone home. That's not going to happen, though, unless we commit whole-heartedly, which aren't doing, and haven't done, since 1945. And sorry Drag, but I think the "nation-building" has to happen, or else there'll be another bloodbath, like post-pullout Vietnam, but with consequences directly affecting us. If we pull out without successfully installing some form of stable government, Iran would simply annex Iraq; the Islamo-Fascists will simply have a new base of operations with lots and lots of new oil to fund their terror against the West. And their nuke program.
The only thing they respect is strength and force; they see our diplomacy, and especially our divisiveness and waffling, as weakness----which it is.
Not that I wish to see such things, but if they woke up one morning to a few mushroom clouds, "Jericho"-like on the horizon, it would get their respect and go a long way toward pushing them back in line. Damascus and Tehran should be the first to go.

As far as sacrifice, Dennis Miller recently made a few points on that. He talked about how the entire nation mobilized in WWI and II, and seriously discussed the possibility of bringing back war bonds, getting people involved in it, those who care about the war and understand the effect defeat would have on the country's future. Miller said he'd be willing to get a few of his Hollywood friends----those few who are grounded in reality---involved in bond drives, if they could get it off the ground. I'd buy them.
Too few people want to realize what losing this war would mean; we're not good at the Big Picture, but we're getting there. I hear even Ed Koch wrote an article saying how losing would guarantee at least "25-30 years of hell" for America.

As far as sacrifice, Dennis Miller recently made a few points on that. He talked about how the entire nation mobilized in WWI and II, and seriously discussed the possibility of bringing back war bonds, getting people involved in it, those who care about the war and understand the effect defeat would have on the country's future.

i was talking about war bonds in 2002. it's about time someone else did.

"Jericho"-like

jericho was cancelled yesterday.

I hear even Ed Koch

ed koch endorsed bush in 2004...what's with the"even"??? at this point, he's a "long time supporter."

i'll take general batiste, eaton, zinni, etc...over koch.

and regardless of whomelse ya wanna bring up...i'll take the founding fathers wisdom over that.

Wow, you deleted a lot of replies. Even some not mine. Picky.

you are now violating a blacklist

---Sean C.

That's okay....it sucked; I was just using the visual as a referent.

It was one of those shows they have now where a lot of coolness gets promised, but little really happens. "Heroes" is like that. My wife and I love it, but are getting tired of all the hype with no payoff. It's like a nudie bar---you get all excited, but nothing great comes of it...so to speak.

that might be the line of the day,,,thanks for the chuckle:)

Really? Interesting. Nice to know one does not have to say much around here to get blacklisted. I'm still waiting for appology you own me.

Very funny. So what are you going to do, sue him?

Yep, volunteer force...stop whining.