"The President has now established, once again, his ability to "flip flop" when politically convenient."

Considering the fact that Rumsfeld took the initiative, I'd say Bush doesn't have the right to force him to stay. Or, would you like to be forced to do something you don't want to do/continue?


Anywho...

I'd say Bush doesn't have the right to force him to stay

according to bush, rumsfeld offered his resignation after the abu ghirab scandal. bush rejected it and kept him on.

according to bush, rumsfeld offered his resignation after the abu ghirab scandal. bush rejected it and kept him on.

I still don't feel he should have done that. Rumsfeld has his reason. Besides that, now you suddenly believe Bush?

you suddenly believe Bush

we all have our political beliefs, and i believe the new oversight in congress along with both sides desire not to look bad in the next two years will keep him more honest. as far as the past goes, we'll see where the investigations lead. i hope the democrats don't go witch hunting. i have said all along that in the end, and esp after the elections, regardless of result, that then it will be important for us all to come together. democrat, republican and independent.

And your point is???

it was a response to someone else's statement. just pointing out he did what they said he shouldn't "have the right" to do.

Since the man wasn't "fired" to begin with

that's paraphrasing,,,and in goverment whip, resigning and being fired are often a matter of symantics and face saving. sorry if it wasn't "PC" enough for ya. fact is that we don't really know if he offered his resignation or it was requested. but based on the statements by bush himself, it seems he was seeking a replacement before the resignation was offered. feel free to draw your own conclusions...

i went out to look for the transcript of the conference i watched live, but it's not on the web yet. if i remember, i'll show ya where i took the liberty of sayiing what bush said without directly quoting him, k? i'm sure it will be up within 24 hours at a site i readily check.

What part of "I resign" don't you understand, Sean?

plenty, in fact , the article i wrote here is entitled "Rumsfeld To Resign"....go ahead, take a look, you'll see...

if you wanna make a federal case out of me paraphrasing and not getting caught up in symantics, have at it...i really have no interest in nitpicking this at that level. the democrats kicked ass as i predicted and something that trivial isn't gonna bring me down. i am more caught up in enjoying a little vindication and thinking about what common ground can be found in the future for these political foes.

someone pee in your cheerios whip? a little testy there , aren't we?

I also do not want to see a "witch hunt" but we need to know what Bush knew prior to committing our troops to this disastrous war in Iraq. We also need to see if Bush broke the laws with respect to the surveillance operations. These are VERY major issues and the facts need to be known.

Apparently, Sean, you are making a perfect example of what happens when you try to appease liberals. Liberals got what they wanted here, but like Audrey II in Little Shop of Horrors, blood won't be enough.

Yes, Rumsfeld resigned, and there is both good and bad to that. It does make me wonder though, is this going to appease Speaker Pelosi? Or only increase her (and liberals') need to feed?

I also do not want to see a "witch hunt" but we need to know what Bush knew prior to committing our troops to this disastrous war in Iraq. We also need to see if Bush broke the laws with respect to the surveillance operations. These are VERY major issues and the facts need to be known.

Oh...My...God! No way, is colg being...m..moderate? Sensible?


( Just giving you a bad time dude, that's all. I mean, if we can't laught at ourselves, then what's the point?)

I don't want to see a witch hunt either. I mean, I used to be for the Iraq war. Not because of WMDs (That was a concern, but it was not THE thing.), it was so that the Iraqi's could taste freedom. If you haven't noticed, I am extremely pro freedom/liberties, and the spread of such.

I'd like to see what they had, the info and such. So I can draw my own conclusions from that.

Let me help you. One is voluntary, the other isn't.

and if ya wanna go there...it does appear from the way the events unfolded, that rumsfeld was encouraged to submit his resignation or be fired.

Colin Powell resigned, against the President's wishes. Whose face was HE saving, hmm?

this is ridiculous...i said "most" ...that does not mean "always"..talk about not knowing the difference between things, lol

what is your problem here whip? you are nitpicking things that don't matter...rumsfeld is gone and many are glad. and since ya wanna bring up other posts, i'm still waiting on an answer to when i ever questioned mm's service. that was a lie and i am still waiting for the acknowledgement of that.

i'm still waiting on an answer to when i ever questioned mm's service. that was a lie and i am still waiting for the acknowledgement of that.

(lw here, on Emp's account)

You ought to look before you leap. I answered you there this morning.

that wasn't an answer. simple fact is that neither of you can show any evidence of me ever questioning his service here or anywhere. it would be easy to find, just go to the articles and responses....

or admit that you were wrong. cause i "apparantly" never did anything like you said i did in any way shape or form.

but like Audrey II in Little Shop of Horrors, blood won't be enough.

Holy crap...I can't believe someone actually used this as a reference. That is freakin' cool.

~Zoo

Go write another rant about it, and sit there and talk to yourself. You're getting as bad as jennifer with that crap.

whatever whip...you go round here stirring things up, getting involved in other people's disputes and now when it comes time to own up to anything, you get all self righteous and huffy...it's the same old pattern from you...you and mm are 2 of a kind, ones who can dish it out, but can't ever admit their own errors. it's obvious here that despite overwhelming evidence, you are too afraid to own up to the fact that you were wrong in accusing me of something i never even came close to doing.

i might be harsh, and you can feel free to say whatever ya want about me, but the fact remains, when i misread something, misinterpret something or am just plain wrong about something, i admit it, like an adult does. you don't.

you decided to jump into this and accused me directly of questioning his service AS IF it was a fact. it turns out that it was just another one of the nutty ol man's rants and you bought it hook, line and sinker. the fact is he can't show anything, nor can you,,,because it doesn't exist! and you are not big enough or mature enough to admit it. you'd rather preserve your alliance with a bitter old man who blatantly lies about others, maybe cause he blows sunshine up your ass, i don't know...but anyway... you had the nerve to act AS IF i was avoiding you over the weekend when the fact is that i pay very little attention to this blog on weekends unless i'm sick and there is absolutely nothing going on with me or my family. even if i have a little activity on here over a weekend, i usually don't go thru all my posts and responses unless i'm real bored, and probably a little under the weather, like i said before. those are things that i would look at over the week as time permits.

have a nice day:)

"flip flop"

Isn't John Kerry the flip flopper, lol? That's so harsh weird irony, now George Bush is the flip flopper, and John Kerry is the one who can't get a sentence out without f**king i up lol.

"according to bush, rumsfeld offered his resignation after the abu ghirab scandal. bush rejected it and kept him on."

Needed someone to fix the mess and get his eye on the damn ball over there.

"i hope the democrats don't go witch hunting"

Agreed. It's passed Halloween, and I really have no patience for that at all, I will actively campaign for republicans and vote against Dem's in the next election if they begin that crap. We want action and course change get to it!

"but we need to know what Bush knew prior to committing our troops to this disastrous war in Iraq. We also need to see if Bush broke the laws with respect to the surveillance operations. These are VERY major issues and the facts need to be known."

You know what, lets find that out after we get the troops out of the warzone mmmmm k? It doesn't matter if he broke laws, if he did that happened already, punish him after the fact, he would have done it anyway, my view is Bush didn't do anything except mislead us for why we got into this war, either because he was blinded by the need to get into Iraq and get Saddam out or mislead by his brilliant and rapidly deteriorating team of experts in the cabinet. These are very major issues but we have a 150,000 troops inside Iraq in a sh*t storm and we need to fix that problem first! After that we need to stop the major money hemoraging issue in Iraq. Get them buying their own security.

Basically I'm saying we need to move forward and move on.

Hey Whip...

"when it comes time to own up to anything, you get all self righteous and huffy...it's the same old pattern from you"

I've been around JU for 2 maybe 3 weeks, and you know what, Conners is right. You can dish it but u can't take it. It's not about being right, it's about being fair and offering something up that isn't just garbage for people to comment on. We're on post 148 of "Why Islam isn't a Religion of Peace" I'm still waiting for some rebuttal with facts, supporting your posted article and it's claims.

Sometimes just because it makes it into the media that you resign doesn't necessarily mean that that was the case. In this case I'm pretty sure that Rumsfeld offered his resignation again and it was accepted by the President, Or the president asked for it, and being the honorable guy that Rumsfeld is, which I truely believe, he gave the offer to resign. Read into the circumstances a little bit deeper,

Rumsfeld is absolutely hated by the Democrats, if anything is to be accomplished in the next two years, and you can bet your ass President Bush would like to see Iraq eventually turn around and work out, you can bet that Rumsfeld had to go at some point, and not only that but that the longer he stayed around now that the Dem's are going to be in power, the more pressure Pelosi puts on Bush about it, and the less compromise and more gridlock and worse options for bill veto the president sees in the coming weeks. Ethics investigations, possible impeachment, it gets better with the Baker report that'll be dropping onto the media frenzy in the next few days/weeks.

Point being... The direction of the war right now is as much a standstill (not quagmire quite yet suckers) as it was 6 months ago, even a year ago. That's not progress, and the situation continues to not improve.

Rumsfeld in fact hasn't offered his resignation once but twice before, at least that's how many times we've heard about it in the media so far, and rather then make it a political thang or appear so, he didn't offer it before the election, nobody wants to be made a scapegoat, and if the president was truely going to remove him of his own volition it would have been done before the elections. Now it is not only clear that the country has had enough, but that the situation demands a new perspective on how to fix the problems. Donald Rumsfeld has talked the presidents line and walked that line "impossible to lose militarily" and if you recall so was Nam folks, what matters is not willing militarily, that part was over three weeks into the start of hostile actions, what is left to be done is secure Baghdad and put down the militias and get the hell out. Neither of these problems has been adaquate dealt with in the last 6-12 months. He had to go.

"when it comes time to own up to anything, you get all self righteous and huffy...it's the same old pattern from you"

I've been here for about 2-3 weeks, and yeah you're right about that. We're on post 148 of her stellar "Why Islam isn't a religion of Peace." Still waiting for a rebuttal with some facts.