From the King Of Blogging, Sean Conners. Various articles and op/ed's on just about anything from A to Z. Politics, religion, entertainment and whatever else seems interesting at the moment. Members and non-members alike are welcomed to participate in th
besides making the world hate us a little more?
Published on September 18, 2006 By Sean Conners aka SConn1 In Current Events
Last week, President Bush announced to the world that the distinguished war veterans such as John McCain, Colin Powell and Lyndsay Graham along with other well respected insiders like John Warner were clueless about the geneva Convention. He claimed another need to circumvent the constitution so he could do his thing in secret, his way...but don't worry, it's legal, cause he says it is.

Bush claimed that "alternative interrogation methods" had produced a wealth of information, prevented attacks and kept us safe. But was any of that true? Not according to Pulitzer Prize Winning journalist Ron Suskind and his sources inside the intelligence community.

According to his book, "The 1% Doctrine", Suskind reveals just what examples Bush used, most importantly, the prime example he used, the interrogation of KSM, or Kahleid Sheik Mohammed. On pages 229/30, this is what we find...

"....the days of stony silence passed, with interrogators sending daily reports to Langley, the pressure built. many days, Bush would ask Tenet, Wwhat are we getting from KSM?" in the morning briefing. Tenet would answer, "not much of anything." Then, the next day, the same question.

This is how, time and time again, boundries are stretched. the Pres. or Vice Pres., repeatedly expressed a desire, or need, to a senior official. It's clear that neither elected official wants to know too much about the hows." They just want it done, accomplished, to dosomething-as the President often said to top aides- "you didn't think you were capable of."

With such prodding, the United States would slip into the darkest of ethical abysses.

KSM's 2 children...were also in custody....interrogators told KSM his children would be hurt if he didn't cooperate...."he basically said fine, they'll join Allah in a better place."


It goes on to say....

"Once you do something as threaten someone's children, and it doesn't work-there's nowhere else to go."

A chilling account indeed. Other parts of the book describe how inneffective these "alternative methods" have been. these methods revealed little or nothing tangible from KSM (which the book also reveals that KSM was found pretty much by accident, not from an interrogation of bin al Shibh as the President claimed last week.

It seems the administration is starting to get cornered. In announcing that he would essentially "take his ball and go home" at a press conference in regards to interrogating ANY detainees if Congress would agree we could ditch our Geneva convention responsibilities under article 3.

It also seems that their claim that these methods have revealed a wealth of information is at best, hyperbole. It seems that what they are most afraid of, is being found out.

If no one else is going to say it, I will, this whole position of the administration stinks on ice.

The disintegration of our geneva convention oblligations gives license to ANYONE to do ANYTHING to our people from here on out. That means that say 50 years from now, long after the war in Iraq is over (at whatever result) in a future conflict, our enemy, whomever that may be, will have legitimate license to do whatever they want to our people. That is horrible and must not be allowed to happen.

Suskind's book, as well as other intelligence sources have shown just how ineffective those methods are. But unfortunately, the intelligence community is covert and is not political. So I would not expect them to stand up for themselves. Especially when Bush's plan includes amnesty for anyone in the intelligence game. Just like an illegal alien, i'm sure they'll take a "get out of jail free" card. Plus, he's giving them undue credit fro producing information that they never produced. A get out of jail free card AND some credit...what a deal!

We have gone long enough under this neoconservative exercize. It's time to lift the lid and bring out the wizard. Good people can disagree. But American's don't torture, and Patriots don't piss on the Constitution and the other treaties this country has made in good faith with the world. You can't be the good guy and the bully at the same time. This administration seems incapable of learning that. These rules apply now more than ever.







"

Comments
on Sep 18, 2006
oh wait,,,there's more...

This week, the Senate is planning to quietly hold a vote that would pardon President Bush for breaking the law by illegally wiretapping innocent Americans without warrants. According to Senator Leahy, the bill would "...immunize officials who have violated federal law by authorizing such illegal activities."1President Bush broke the law, and courts are starting to agree. Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter once said the program was illegal "on its face." But he has now caved to pressure from Vice President Cheney, and introduced legislation that marks a new low: the bill justifies everything the president did. Worse, it makes it legal to wiretap Americans, in secret, without warrants or oversight, whenever the administration wants to

yes,,,there's still more...

Many legal experts agree that the president's program to wiretap Americans who have nothing to do with terrorism violates the law. President Bush already has the authority to wiretap suspected terrorists—and we support that. In fact, his administration can tap anyone it likes as long as it gets an OK from a court a few days later.Congress should be trying to hold him accountable—that's their job. Instead, some Republicans are trying to let President Bush off the hook completely. In fact, the legislation would give the president even more unchecked power.Here are some quick facts about the Cheney-Specter bill:It allows President Bush—and every president after him—to wiretap Americans indefinitely, in secret, without a warrant and without any oversight. 3 It effectively pardons the president for any illegal behavior by forcing Congress to concede that he has the inherent authority to conduct the program4—something federal courts, numerous legal experts and many leading Republicans disagree with. 5 It completely guts FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) which has protected the privacy of Americans against illegal wiretaps for close to 30 years.6 It prevents any legal challenges from taking place in the public court system. Instead, it moves all cases to a secret court, where only Bush administration officials can argue it. 7 It would help "immunize" any officials who broke the law in this program from being held accountable in the future. 8 Since the program was exposed in December of last year, we've learned that President Bush personally blocked a Justice Department investigation of the program, Vice President Cheney also personally intervened to stop telecom companies from testifying to Congress about it, and a federal court recently ruled the program unconstitutional.9 In an effort to protect himself from further consequences, the president is pressuring Congress to let him off the hook.This is an important issue and it will help remind Americans, in an election year, what Republicans are all about—accumulating power for themselves, and trampling the system of checks and balances designed to stop that.


Sources:

1. "Today's Republican circus trick: Legislating in the Dark," Senator Leahy, provided by the Bill of Rights Defense Committee, September 13, 2006
http://www.bordc.org/threats/leahy91306.php

"NSA Whitewash Passes Judiciary Committee on Party-Line Vote," People for the American Way, September 13, 2006
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=22373

2. "NSA Whitewash Passes Judiciary Committee on Party-Line Vote," People for the American Way, September 13, 2006
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=22373

3. "Top 5 things Sen. Specter won't tell you about the Cheney-Specter bill," ACLU
http://action.aclu.org/site/PageServer?pagename=SpecterTop5

4. ACLU Letter to the Senate Regarding Strong Opposition to the Substitute Version of S. 2453, the "National Security Surveillance Act of 2006" May 16, 2006
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/nsaspying/25578leg20060516.html

**Note: The bill has changed slightly from when this letter was written, however the sections accepting the president's claim of inherent authority remains

5."Judge Rules Against Wiretaps," Washington Post, August 18, 2005
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=2096&id=8810-3108650-Kl1HK.C6BgMjlq4xutjUQQ&t=4

"On NSA Spying: A Letter to Congress," New York Review of Books, February 9, 2006
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18650

McCain: Bush Does Not Have "The Legal Authority To Engage In These Warrantless Wiretaps," ThinkProgress, January 22, 2006
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/01/22/mccain-wiretaps-illegal/

6. "Top 5 things Sen. Specter won't tell you about the Cheney-Specter bill," ACLU
http://action.aclu.org/site/PageServer?pagename=SpecterTop5

7. "NSA Bill Performs a Patriot Act," Wire News, September 13, 2006
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,71778-1.html?tw=wn_story_page_next1

8. "Today's Republican circus trick: Legislating in the Dark," Senator Leahy, provided by the Bill of Rights Defense Committee, September 13, 2006
http://www.bordc.org/threats/leahy91306.php

9. ACLU Slams Senate Judiciary Committee Approval of NSA Spying Bills, ACLU, September 13, 2006
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/nsaspying/26722prs20060913.html
on Sep 18, 2006
Very nice article. Worthy of insightful...
on Sep 18, 2006
ty:)

on Sep 19, 2006
i figured i'd better show the references before i got flamed....
on Sep 19, 2006
The waterboarding of kalil sheik muhammed did save lives according the the CIA, who had custody of him. waterboarding has since been discontinued.
on Sep 19, 2006
there is NO EVIDENCE showing any torture worked on KSM, bin al Sheid or anyone else. just the president saying "trust me" when i say it's true. as far as i know...lmfao.

according to the best book on the subject, the oppostie is true...on page 227, i quote..."at one 5pm meeting in april, Buzzy Krongard raised the issue of "what have we learned to this point, and what might we do differently?" What had they learned? "there was a grudging professional admiration for how hard these guys were." Krongard recalled later. " They were real soldiers. They went thru hell, and gave up very, very little."

This was esp. true for the most valued captive, shy of KSM, Ramzi bin al Shibh. In the six months since his capture, he'd rec. death threats, waterboarding, hot and cold treatments, sleeplessness, noise and more death threats. nothing worked."


the one percent doctrine documents the intelligence community's "side of the story" you really should read it BEFORE just going off what the president says the CIA said in a majorly political moment.

on Sep 19, 2006
by the way, in my orig post is the "conclusion" of those details about KSM,,,where theywent beyond all this and threatened his family, the only thing they didn't do to bin al sheid....just wanted to note that before you asked.
on Sep 20, 2006
American's don't torture, and Patriots don't piss on the Constitution - Sean Conners

That's right - we don't!
on Sep 20, 2006
Carefull what you wish for, if the "detainees" are granted Geneva Convention status then they can't be tried but can be held until after the end of the war on terror.

Is that what you really want?