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talkin bout #8, protection from cruel and/or unusual punishment...
Published on May 9, 2007 By Sean Conners aka SConn1 In History
Most people who are at all active in politics or have any interest in our government usually have their favorite ammendments to the Constitution.


Some love the 1st Ammendment. Journalists, activists and anyone with an unpopular or at least a perceived minority voice will often cite their 1st ammendment rights to speech, religion and assembly.

Some Love the 2nd Ammendment. Some to the point they fantasize about someone actually trying to pry the gun from their "cold, dead hands."

When we don't want to rat ourselves out, or on the advice of our cuncil, the 5th ammendment to our Constitution is not only cited but used as a battle cry quite often. One recent justice employee was so big on it she invoked her priveledge before any questions were even asked.

Some toast the repeal of Prohibition, and if it hadn't been repealed, the 18th ammendment to our Constitution might be the least popular.

But since it has been repealed, the least popular has to be the 8th ammendment. The text reads...

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Despite this, most people, especially when freely expressing themselves, will pay no heed to this protection. In their mind, the harsher the better for the guilty. Especially when we just don't like the person. This comes out in impassioned cries for opponents to "burn and rot in hell" over a simple disagreement. Or to wish some other great harm on someone who has offended us in some minor way, in the big picture. But at those moments, it is not the "punishment fitting the crime" that is important to us. It is that the offender feel some wrath that proves that the offended dare not even be challenged in the future.

And it has really become evident in the Paris Hilton spectacle recently.

Miss Hilton has been convicted of violating her probation after a DUI had her license suspended. The judge sentenced her t o 45 days in jail. The nation applauded.

Never mind that the usual for such an offense is 5-15 days, and most people try to b.s. their way out of it.

Miss Hilton was a disgrace in court, trying to blame everyone around her for her own selfish deeds. No doubt. But again, that is typical in these courts. Many who find themselves in this predicament are usually not hardened criminals and are scared to death to see their 1st glimpse of the inside of a jail cell after visiting hours. So they blame everone else to try to save their neck.

And the few who are violated that are more advanced in the criminal arts are usually being pulled in because they want the guy or gal there for another, more serious investigation. And those cases are handled and sentenced a little differently.

Now before anyone gets the idea that I am a Paris fan, think again...I can't stand the lil wench.

But her Constitutional rights could be violated here, and that is never good for the rest of us. Keep in mind that most everyone never cite or knew about her actual courtroom alibis, but cited the fact that she is a "rich lil ho that thinks she's above the law" as justification for her sentence. They cited their hate of her going in. People were calling for her getting "the max" since before she went to court last week.

I don't want to see her pardoned, but at the same time, she doesn't deserve a more cruel or an unusual punishment than the rest of us either. And one could argue that the fact that she is being given a report date rather than just being hauled away like most others was unfairly lenient to her. But unfair leniency doesn't justify unusual cruelness on the flip side.

Also, the prison she is going to often lets people out early, as they are overcrowded. But before she has even arrived, it is being reported that she won't be considered for that in fear of public outcry that they were too soft on her. Even tho non-celebrities who are non violent offenders of this minor (overall) type are usually the 1st to be released. So her status is potentially causing an unfair bias there too.

I'm not telling anyone that they shouldn't feel a little glee in the fact that this girl, who was trying to skirt around the law, at the least, and does live in a way that offends many (including me, sometimes) finally got told "no" in an almost unappealable way. And Paris Hilton spending an extra week or 2 behind bars might not trigger armageddon. But the 8th Ammendment to our Constitution is an important principle that defines us and seperates us from some other societies who don't respect the rule of law as we do. And breaking that principle for a moment of selfish satisfaction while another American (who I don't llike either) has their Constitutional rights flagrantly violated for the purposes of satsfying a "mob rule" kind of mentality is simply wrong and un-American, in my view.

And once we start compromising this principle for nothing more than a shallow, selfish satisfaction, what else will we let go by the wayside for less than vital reasons? Will it be those rights that you cherish and tout? Will it be your rights that are being tossed aside for the satisfaction of "mob rule?"

I certainly hope not.



Comments (Page 2)
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on May 11, 2007
Do you have a legal source for that? I have heard otherwise


well, i didn't hear it online, but on court tv and greta's show, the legal experts there mostly were saying that 5-15 was typical.

but again,,,this article really isn't about paris. it's about the 8th ammendment. if you just want to vent on paris, feel free...but understand that is hardly the point here. it was an example. and another part of that example that hasn't been brought up as they show up to rip on paris is that there is talk that the prison she is going to VERY commonly releases the offenders early. a recent reality show contestant was let go 2 hours (that's right, hours) into her sentence. and the word is that the people who ecide that have already expressed that she will be denied that typical and common treatment. that also raises questions.

that doesn't mean i've drawn conclusions that her 8th ammendment rights were violated, but i do consider the questions.

like everyone else karma, my "gut" reaction is to be happy that the lil wench finally got told "no" by someone that daddy couldn't pay off. in my view, like many others, she is the prototypical stupid, spoiled whore (to borrow from south park). but my feelings have nothing to do with her dealings with justice. and they shouldn't.

ignoring the consitution in cases where our desire for vengence are greater than our desire for actual justice is a dangerous and destructive thing. in the short term, the ego might be satisfied, but the damage we can do is far more important than any 1 case.

perhaps all of paris's rights were not infringed upon. there is no harm in taking a 2nd look to make sure. but i hope you are not confusing that with a desire to "free paris" or let her off for her crimes.
on May 11, 2007
,,,this article really isn't about paris. it's about the 8th ammendment.


In that case, I think it is the second amendment. But you did make some good arguements for why the 8th is not so hot either.
on May 11, 2007
In that case, I think it is the second amendment


the 2nd is devisive, but does garner broad support. but the 8th is the refuge of the scorned.
on May 11, 2007

there is no harm in taking a 2nd look to make sure. but i hope you are not confusing that with a desire to "free paris" or let her off for her crimes.

I think that I have shown that I took a "second look" at what happened (hence the other questions that I brought up and the other scenarios that have taken place).

You used Paris as the example, therefore I am questioning that example.  If you wanted to have a discussion on the 8th and how it's not always withheld, you would have been better off talking about the issues with the ankle alcohol monitors that were putting people in jail wrongfully (which many lost their jobs and other parts of their lives for).  Use non-glamorized examples, not overblown media hypes.

on May 11, 2007
but does garner broad support


What about male support???  

(oops! Now I am going to get it!)
on May 11, 2007
Sorry Sean. I understand what you are saying about the 8th Amendment, but I can't see where 45 days for someone who was given a chance to get off basically scot-free is "excessive" or "cruel and unusual".

She was given a second chance and flaunted it... plain and simple. Yes, she had every right to defend herself and her actions any way she saw fit, and was given that chance... but she blew it.
on May 11, 2007
What about male support???

(oops! Now I am going to get it!)


BAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

yer gonna get called a misogynist now... (the popular term of the week)
on May 11, 2007
Sorry Sean. I understand what you are saying about the 8th Amendment, but I can't see where 45 days for someone who was given a chance to get off basically scot-free is "excessive" or "cruel and unusual".


that's fair. and same with karma's observations. and in hindsight, the example might have not been the best, granted. and i may have argued the point a bit strenuously in her case on some things. but as long as everyone gets the point about the 8th ammendment...to quote george...mission accomplished.

on May 11, 2007
yer gonna get called a misogynist now... (the popular term of the week)


nah, just for the gender impaired groupies.
on May 11, 2007
gender impaired groupies


LMAO!
on May 11, 2007
That's fair. and same with karma's observations. and in hindsight, the example might have not been the best, granted. and i may have argued the point a bit strenuously in her case on some things. but as long as everyone gets the point about the 8th ammendment...to quote george...mission accomplished.


True, your point was a good one. Your example would have been good to, her being someone who most Americans wouldn't bat an eye if she were treated excessively. I mean, if she was put in solitary with no press or cameras and forgotten by the general public, that would only come CLOSE to being excessive. ;~D
on May 11, 2007
I mean, if she was put in solitary with no press or cameras and forgotten by the general public, that would only come CLOSE to being excessive. ;~D


You forgot the worms.
on May 11, 2007
I mean, if she was put in solitary with no press or cameras and forgotten by the general public, that would only come CLOSE to being excessive


lol...actually, she will be in protective custody of some sort. rumor has it that she is "bulking up" in fear of being pummelled even with that protective custody.

on the camera thing...i wouldn't be surprised if this ended up being a reality show. she is a media whore and the cameras actually might serve to protect her.

word is that she is scared to death...and she should be...i hope she ends up a better person for the experience. maybe go back to all those folks she insulted and abused during her show "for entertainment" and make it up by actually putting in an effort to do the work that normal people do. maybe in the end she'll realize that she was the one with the "simple life."
on May 11, 2007
maybe in the end she'll realize that she was the one with the "simple life."


Love that one! And we can hope. But I think in vain.
on May 11, 2007
Love that one! And we can hope. But I think in vain.


probably, but stranger things have happened. jesse ventura went from being a bad guy wrestler to being a mediocre, but significant governor.
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