and the hardcore center of that movement, no we won't make peace with them. but unless you believe that they "all are like that" you have to realize that just like with the cold war and other great conflicts in history, the vast majority of people have no interest in killing anyone for anything.

we won the cold war because of blue jeans, mcdonalds and MTV. not because of the military. And where Reagan and Gorbachav used the realities on the ground to their collective advantages, the people of the USSR are more responsible for ending the cold war than anyone. as they got sick and tired of waiting in long lines for basic necessities, the world started to flatten. We entered the information age. It simply wasn't as easy to oppress the people. and as the unrest inside the USSR began to spill out, as news of supershopping centers with discounted prices, cheap tasty food and entertainment on demand spilled in.

so, if you think most of the arab world wants goods and services in a convenient manner like the rest of the world then we better change our course dramatically.

if you believe that most of em want us dead,,,then send in the carpet bombers.

but in either case, our current path is simply a road to disaster. it's macho without the mojo.

one last note...please stop trying to paint me as "wanting them to win" or any crap like that. i've made it clear who's side i'm on. but i don't do it with blinders on. trying to paint our nation into sainthood will never do anyone a bit of good. you can only improve when you acknowledge the flaw. but flaws don't damn us. recognizing and minimizing them is our challenge going forward if yyou look at it with a sober mind.

Please show where I said all of them, I'm not too fond of those who put words in my mouth. I'm not ignorant to the concept that they are all alike. And I would like to know how exactly is it that you know what the vast majority wants? Again you are having illusions that you speak for the vasy majority of people like Col gene does.



That doesn't matter cause I don't know what most arabs want. I only know that some do not like us and those who are not voicing themselves are not condemming them either.



Been saying it for some time now. You may be thinking I don't care for human life, you couldn't be any more wrong. Because I care is the reason why I think a strong hand is sometimes needed from the begining. That shock and awe so much mentioned when we first started this war was more of a surprise than shock. Sure, we may have scared a few Iraqi soldiers into giving up, but all we really did was show them how good we are at bluffing. Right then and there they understood that we weren't gonna really blast them back before the stone age. We didn't have the balls then for fear of criticism that we got anyways.



We will have to agree on this one.



Of course you don't do it with blinders. You do just find closing your eyes. THis is not about you wanting them to win, it's about wanting us to lose. You want the current administration to screw up so bad, even if it puts innocent lives at stake, just so you can them go around screaming murder. You're ideals are not to better this country, it's a political thing. You're question alone says it all. You question why the administration is treating this incident as a terrorist attack, not because you're championing that cause of the American people or the "innocent Muslims, this is just for political bashing and finger pointing.



For a person claiming not to have blinders you really do close your eyes everytime you read someone elses opinion. From my own words:





Not once have I said we were innocent of having done things wrong before. But at the least we try to value things while trying to solve problems. Keep in mind we are fighting a war by the rules against an enemy with no honor, at least not from OUR POINT OF VIEW. The Muslim race has existed for thousands of years before the US was formed yet we at least try to be as humane as possible with every action we take. We try to demand equality in a time were racism, financial status and gender differences are still surviving in our society though in medium to low quantities. Laws are constantly passed to help those can't help themselves. Countless programs are created to help the less fortunate. Starvation in this country is a matter of laziness than unavailability. The day I see anything like this going on in places like Iraq, where women can walk without fear of being stoned, where people can worship the God of their chosing without having death threats nocking at their doors, where is child is being tought that 2+2=4 as oppose to being told that infidels must die cause their God says so; when I see things like this happening then I can go on not worrying about someone wanting me dead cause they fear my lifestyle disrupts their culture.

it all comes down to the fact that you fear them and I don't.

Sean,
The little difference is simple. We declared our intentions to continue the war with Iraq as was allowed in the UN mandates. The Gulf war was never resolved, the cease fire was in effect but the war had not ended. Just like the Korean war, we are in a cease fire situation with North Korea, the war has not ended because no one has surrendered yet. When I was still in the service I remember we get five to ten servicemen killed each year from snipers over the last fifty years. Back to the point. We were at war with Iraq prior to our invasion. Both sides have uniformed troops and the battle has always been between the troops rather than attacking the civilians as the main target. AQ went after military targets first but had no real success until they went after the civilians on 9/11 it also announced their downfall.

You're damn right I do. I don't want to die a senseless death just because they mad and their precious God told them to kill me so they can have a ton of virgins when they die. At least I'm man enough to admit my fear, my fear makes me stronger, it makes me more aware, it gives my family more security. Fearing means I care, it means I pay attention. Because we did not fear the enemy, we did not pay attention to their movements. We felt invulnerable, untouchable, almighty; until the Twin Towers fell. They fell because we were too confident.

My fear does not make me a coward as you tried to portray in this single sentence. My fear gives me strength, it empowers me. Here is the reality: It all comes down to them before us. In the end I would give my life for my family, my country; but I would do what I can to take them down before me. Terrorism is a cowards tactic, a my-way-or-the-highway tactic, an inhumane tactic.

so , with you, their mission is complete.




no, because we did not RESPECT our enemy, we got hit. there's a big difference.

This is where you are wrong. This is were your understanding of people is limited. The type of fear an enemy such as a terrorist searches for is those who will submit to them, who will give up and back off. That is not the fear I have. I fear for my life, my families life, my friends and fellow Americans. This fear allows me to face the enemy head on, it does not make me hide and give up. If anything their terrorist tactics have actually backfired on them. They did not get the results they were seeking. Instead they only gave me and people like me a greater purpose to fight back.

One thing you can be sure about me, put my families life in danger and you will have to face a man who's strenght, honor, valor, bravery and commitment feed and grow from this type of fear. Mission complete? Not if their mission was to piss off a sleeping giant. Sometimes the most logical course isn't always the right course.

Respect is earned, not given. Learn that.

and the fact that they were the inhabitants of that region for 1000's of years earns that respect.

and charles...i suggest you retract those comments on the other thread.

We have a land of Methuselahs? WOW! Where is that fountain of Youth!

I'm sorry, where do you live again? I mean if you live here in the US then you're more of a hypocrit than anyone I have met on this site. Keeping in mind that we live on a piece of land we took from the native Indians. I don't see them bringing jihad on to us.

Do you speak of the one with the military wife? I don't take back words I post unless I find myself wrong. It's your site, remove it if you want.

Sean,
The reason we were attacked was because Saudi Arabia disrespected AQ during the Gulf War. When Iraq invaded Kuwait AQ volunteered to fight Iraq and kick them out of Kuwait. Saud said thanks but we would rather have the Americans come in and protect us than you. Huge insult but smart thinking. That was when we started to get serious attacks from AQ because the Saudi’s were attacked and then paid AQ off leaving only us to take the hits. We did not disrespect them the leader of Saudi Arabia disrespected them. Because we chose to help an Arab nation that was attacked by an Arab nation we were in the wrong in their eyes. It was then that AQ set its sights on us, before that they were our friends. We supported them against the Soviets in Afghanistan, yet the Taliban and a small splinter group called Al Qaeda felt they needed to destroy us. Two groups helped by us in their struggle against the Soviets. (A war started by Mr. Carter to deflect his weakness in Iran.)
Are you suggesting that we as a nation watching another nation mug a third nation that we have national interests in sit back and let it happen even when we were asked to help?

Our national mistake was not going after AQ the minute they started attacking us directly. That would be Somalia and the black hawk down situation. If I remember correctly that was their first attack on us. Where was our disrespect of the people or a nation. The UN ordered us to arrest the Somali war lord not the US. President Bush refused because we went in to provide food and protection of civilians not in the civil war nothing more, President Clinton was conned into turning the humanitarian mission into a police action which got the ball rolling and the attacks on us started. Did AQ attack the UN? No they attacked us. One helicopter, one ship, and two embassies later we get hit at home and people wonder what we did to deserve the attacks on 9/11, the answer is nothing. No good deed goes unpunished. The only thing we have done to anger the Arab world is our steadfast support of Israel a nation created by the UN not the United States.
Please Sean, tell me what we did to disrespect them?

War - a conflict carried on by force of arms, as between nations or between parties within a nation; warfare, as by land, sea, or air

Terrorism - the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes

Dont you see the bias even in these two difinitions that you use?

if you go by that then there is really no purpose for "war" while Terrorism's is "political". and as if "by force of arms" is not a violent action.

all this discussion about this topic is going nowhere since it really belongs to "the mind of the beholder" kind of definition. Our "Terrorist" is their "Freedom Fighter" and vice versa. We, the USA called Alqaeda "Freedom Fighters" when they were fighting the USSR using the same methods they are now using against us. Now, we call them "Terrorists". What changed? nothing on their part, it is just before, they were fighting on our side, now they are fighting us. that is what changed.

War and Terrorism are the same and both use different tactics and weapons depending on the battle (last summer, Hammas, an organization we call terrorist , fought Israel's forces in a battle that lasted about a month, does that change our description of them?) and both have political goals.

they have command strutures and operational , supply, finance and PR units not much different from any army. We actually call them by their ranks like deputy, strategist, commander,... etc.

Using "Dictionaries" for this kind of words is really misleading. It depends who is writing the dictionary.

That is why there is no universal definition for "Terrorism" because it depends on who is talking and who is fighting whom.

When you don’t separate combatants from non-combatants your saying there’s no living on the same planet as you, and we want all of you to die

isnt that what we did in Alhadetha and many other situations in Iraq?

war is Ugly, terrible and have much more innocent victims than combatants. So is Terrorism.

that is why no one in his right mind should start either unless it is a MUST in order to defend your country against real and imminant danger.