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not things that you do...
Published on April 27, 2007 By Sean Conners aka SConn1 In US Domestic
It's easy to defend the things we like. It's easy to defend the people we like. It's easy to conceive that the things and people we like and want for ourselves should be our "right."

But rights aren't about things we like. Rights are about things we don't like. Defending free speech is about defending your enemies right to speak. It's about speech and things that fall under the 1st ammendment that we despise. When the Supreme Court upheld Larry flynt's rights, they weren't endorsing Hustler or even what he said specifically about Rev. Falwell. They were defending his right to speak, not his actual speech.

In fact, the end result, as history has shown, is that it is the reverand's speech rights that have benefitted over the years since he lost his case with the Hustler publisher more than Flynt has benefitted. Isn't it ironic that the case that defended the preacher's foe back then has been cited, directly or inderectly in protecting religious speech?

I hate flag burning. I think it's a disgrace. I can think of 1000 better ways to protest a grievance with the government. But I don't want to ban it. I don't want to take away your right to burn it. And even if 100% of us don't want to burn a flag, I still don't want to ban it. Afterall, other than the potential fire hazard and slight environmental impact, it really hurts no one. It is an exercize of free speech. If the local police want to arrest them for arson, ok. But leave the Constitution alone.

I'm not the biggest fan of guns in the world. Where i've done some hunting and have no problems at all with anyone who hunts for food especially, that's not what the second ammendment is about to me. The 2nd ammendment, to me, is the granting of the right of arming themselves to the people. This was about the distrust of government, arguably justified, in my view, by the people. Since the government can crush the people with a gun, the people should be able to stop an unjust government with that same gun. It's the same checks and balances theme that runs throughout our Constitution.

The people, in this context, is the law abiding. felons who have shown their lack of an ability to use a gun lawfully shouldn't have one. Someone who is mentally ill in a way that could affect their judgement, should not have a gun.

Keep in mind, the forefathers didn't really have much of a concept of mental illness. Most of the mentally ill to them were demonically posessed. But even with the misdiagnosis, i'm convinced they didn't make it a practice to hand a demon a musket.

And as far as hunting weapons go, for them, they were pretty much one and the same musket. But regardless, I am confident that a society that primarily hunted for their food with those muskets weren't even considering taking away a gun from a hunter in the hills of Pennsylvania. The colonies were a little spread out for that to be practical.

But the guns in the towns, the ones that weren't being used so much, would be the more immediate concern to a government that wanted to surpress a people. That was the check on government that they didn't want messed with.

Fast forward to today.

Today, there is a big difference between a hunting gun and one used to kill in many instances. yes, there are "dual purpose" weapons, but many guns only have 1 intended purpose.

And I despise assault weapons. We all know, regardless of where we stand on gun issues, that these guns are made to kill. And not bambi.

But the principle of the 2nd ammendment is about checks and balances. It's all about the right of the people to keep their government in check by being on an equal footing arms wise.

In fact, one could extend that to mean that any law abiding citizen should be able to own any piece of arms they can safely and law-abingly own. A tank? Yes. A missle? If it can be safely contained and maintained, sure. If the military can own it, so can we. Maybe if the world had more policies like that since the days of muskets, all governments, not just ours, might actually give the respect to the people they serve if they couldn't just use their power of the gun to oppress and supress any and all unpopular ideas and thought.

I'm not sure I go that far in this day and age, after all, we are where we are. And allowing anyone to own sophisticated pieces of arms with nuclear capability isn't very smart. Especially since we can't seem to keep guns out of the hands of people who are mentally ill and an imminent danger to themselves and others.

But let's assume we do actually "bite the bullet" and start a responsible system to keep the guns out of the hands of the derranged and violently criminal. The question of the check against the government still remains.

And i'll still detest assault weapons.

I still personally choose not to have any guns in my home, which has small children.

And i'll still support the 2nd ammendment.



Comments (Page 2)
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on Apr 27, 2007
I WILL SAY THIS AGAIN YOU STUPID IDIOT I READ IT AT THE LIBRARY FROM A BOOK TITLED THE BILL OF RIGHTS OR THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES IT WAS 20 YEARS AGO


Danielost,

Idiot? Anyone who thinks there's a conspiracy to hide the actual text of the Constitution from American people (including lawyers), but thinks that they would put the *actual* text in a library and not on the Internet is not only stupid, but dangerously so. There is honestly no hope for you.

why is the congress makeing laws establishing a religion


Name one law establishing a religion, even a non religion. Granted, our country's record on the Bill of Rights is pretty damn terrible, but as far as established religions go, it just ain't happening.

Your deck's short a few aces, danielost. Any civility or deference you might have received from me has gone out the window, as not only have I PROVED my position, but decidedly so, yet you still stubbornly refuse to admit simply that you were wrong.

Tell you what. Take *your* text of the Bill of Rights to a lawyer alongside the one I posted and SEE which one is accurate. Better yet, why don't you travel and look at the ACTUAL documents? You won't see the words you quoted anywhere on them.
on Apr 27, 2007

YOU ARE THE ONE THAT NEEDS TO GO TO THE LIBRARY AND READ A REAL BOOK


I have read far more than you ever will, danielost. Here's a hint: "The Turner Diaries" is NOT a documentary.

As for name calling, no I did not start it. The record of this thread will show that. I DID offer to kiss your ass and post the video on YouTube if you could prove me wrong (the offer's still open, btw), and you responded by calling me stupid. The argument degenerated from there.
on Apr 27, 2007
on Apr 27, 2007
Better yet, why don't you travel and look at the ACTUAL documents? You won't see the words you quoted anywhere on them.


I've actually done that. Stood in line with the rest of the tourist and went through metal detectors and saw 'em. They're in this huge granite building that looks like a courthouse in Washington D.C. called the National Archives. And yep, they read just like Gid says...
on Apr 27, 2007
For the record, daniel, the first time anyone was called a name on this thread was response #6, sentence 1. And it was you calling me stupid.

I don't like being called stupid on my best day, but less so when I am provably and decidedly right. Since you took it that direction, I followed suit. I DID make my YouTube comment prior to that, but that wasn't name calling, not by a long shot.

So yes, you DID start the name calling. And anyone who cares enough to scroll up can see that.
on Apr 27, 2007
on Apr 27, 2007
Oh, I know, shovel. What really pissed me off was this guy started calling me stupid then told me to shut MY filthy mouth. I guess I shouldn't feed the trolls, but this dim bulb struck a nerve.
on Apr 27, 2007
Not quite, Sean. The Bill of Rights does not grant a single right to the people. Rather, they RESTRICT the ability of the government to attempt to infringe on those rights.


point taken gideon, but i don't think it changes the checks and balances premise

on Apr 27, 2007
point taken gideon, but i don't think it changes the checks and balances premise


You're right, it doesn't, but it's an important fact that should be understood.
on Apr 27, 2007
but it's an important fact that should be understood.


it is, and it is worth mentioning...thanks. and thanks for reading btw...that's appreciated as well.

i still owe you an apology for the out of line language i used weeks back. i'd like to formally offer that apology now that i have your attention in a non-hostile moment (lol).

and btw,,,brandie,,,surprised to see you here...lol
on Apr 28, 2007

And i'll still detest assault weapons.


Define "assualt weapon".
on Apr 28, 2007
all of those links you provided lead to web pages that explain the amendment they do not show the actual amendment


WRONG! His very "first" link is quoting from the bill of rights. There was "no" explanation on that link.
on Apr 29, 2007

Wow, danielost,  you really need to learn fact from fiction.

Gideon is correct about the text of the second amendment.

 

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