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they never want to leave Iraq, no matter how many lives are lost or how little is gained
Published on April 26, 2007 By Sean Conners aka SConn1 In Current Events
Every day, the American political landscape is peppered with talk and debate about Iraq. One side talks about a responsible departure while the other uses inflamatory language to try to make the case for surges and further commitments in the region.

T.B.T.K. is an old commonly used set of letters around capitol hill. It stands for "too big to kill." It is commonly used around government pork projects that lawmakers or whomever have ensured it's continued funding by simply making the program so large that arguments can be made about "economic hardships" and other negative factors happening if the program is 86'ed. Some examples that others have cited would include medicare or the international space station. When a military base is threatened with closure due to modernization or efficiency, too big to kill type arguments are made to save it.

In invading Iraq, we were promised quick results, shiny happy people cheering our name and low costs. In fact, Paul Wolfowitz, now facing ethics dilemmas as head of the World Bank due to his alleged promoting and handsomly upping the salary of his girlfriend, promised more than that.

Wolfowitz promised a "no cost" war. He and his neoconservative "experts claimed that Iraq's own oil revenues would pay for everything with change left over. A brief time later, they were beckoning Congress, hat in hand, for a 78 billion dollar supplemental bill to make up for those non existant oil revenues. When certain members of Congress wanted to share some sacrifice with the richest 1% amongst us, they were painted as traitors by the administration and their well oiled punditry.

Now, a trillion or so dollars later, after the American people demanded a change from "stay the course" and a departure from the civil war we are unjustly refereeing, we are in the midst of a surge. Marketed as "a new direction."

But it's not. It's actually the 3rd "surge" we have attempted, and is failing as miserably, if not more, than the previous two. It is more of "stay the course" with a new advertisement campaign. Another sales pitch, just like everything involving this war has been from the administration.

Why sell it? Because that's what you do with pork barrell programs that you want to last forever. Just keep making them "too big to kill." This is even evidenced by the smart ass recent quips about the surge from the administration that has only exposed their desires further. When the President says that he is delivering the changes that americans wanted, you can see the smirk a mile away. I'm surprised it's not commonly followed with a "na, nana na, na" sometimes.

The latest surge allows the neoconservative chickenhawks to essentially push this war to the next administration. The old stall game, an old pork barrell trick. Keep the program going so long that it becomes part of the fabric, rather than something special that must be seperately considered on it's own merits. Plus, this allows the neoconservatives to point the finger of blame that "they lost the war" as if the Bush administration was just on the "verge of victory" when "they screwed it all up." I expect those charges will be levied against anyone who tries to stop our continued occupation and civil war referee role in Iraq before they are even sworn in.

Congress has answered by insisting that there be conditions on this funding. Conditions that makes people accountable for their actions instead of another wasted blank check. But that is unacceptable to the neoconservative brand of pork. From their perspective, things like the relief Bush promised the people of New Orleans and the gulf region are the "unneccessary" things. To hell with New Orleans, we have a never ending war to fight!

But how exactly how will this war end. And more importantly, Can it even possibly have an ending? President Bush has only stated how it won't end. It won't end like they tried to end it prematurely in 2003 with declarations and speeches on the decks of aircraft carriers with big "mission accomplished" banners flying high.

There will always be terrorists. There will always be people who are willing to go beyond societal norms to make their point as terrorists do. No doubt, there are some in Iraq. Of course there are. But then again, there are terrorists in just about every developed and some undeveloped countries in the world. There are terrorists in the US. There are terrorists in Canada. Should we invade Canada?

The fact is that the terrorist element is and always has been relatively small in Iraq. Under Saddam, they threatened him and his secular ways so he kept them out with his iron fist methods. And today, even with the pourous borders with Syria and Iran (both of which keep al quaeda out much more adamantly than say, egypt and saudi arabia who we ally ourselves with) the terrorist threat amonst the militias account for only a minimal percentage and is really nothing compared to the civil war that overshadows it.

But will we ever be able to catch terrorism "in a bag" in Iraq or anywhere else for that matter? Of course not. So, therefore, we can assume, that there ALWAYS will be terrorists and the potential for violent acts. The administration claims that placing any kind of "timeline" to end their TBTK program only "emboldens the enemy."

Nonsense!

Why? Think about it.

Let's say we do put a timetable on a withdrawal. According to the chickenhawks, the "enemy" will only sit back and relax until we leave.

So what?

If the Iraqi infrastructure is given a set amount of time with relative calmness that will allow it to gain the footholds it can't do now, is that so bad? Wouldn't they be more equipped and better prepared to fight those terrorists after they have had a chance to set some things up and provide some basic, at least, defense structure? Would we not be better prepared to surgically strike those more exposed elements with a revitalized and properly equipped and trained military unlike the untrained and unprepared soldiers we are sending to their deaths or permanent dismemberment or worse today?

If the plan of the terrorist element of the "insurgency" is to "wait till we leave" then why wouldn't they lay low now? Or last year? Or the year before? they certainly aren't perpetuating the civil war part. That's just sunni and shiite native Iraqi's fighting each other. They aren't terrorists, they are fighting a civil war. If this was the Reagan administration, and we weren't neck deep in this quagmire, we'd be calling at least one side "freedom fighters."

Instead, our governement has announce that we are no longer going to waste our time training the "Iraq security force" in the ways of sophisticated warfare. This being that they simply can't be trusted. Many "security force" personel are in actuality members of sunni or shiite malitias and are using their uniforms, training and weapons to kill opposing malitias. We simply can't trust them. And not because they are terrorists necessarily. Tho there are surely a few infiltrations by terrorists, we know that most of the infiltration has come from militias fighting the civil war against each other. There have been reports of Iraqi troops being turned on and killed by people who were supposedly fighting with us.

So the bumper sticker slogan of "when they stand up, we'll stand up" is hogwash. We have no intention of them standing up. And we know the only prayer they would have of standing up on their own is if we cut the cord and allow this young nation to develop on it's own, perhaps seriously considering actually implememnting some plans that the Iraq study group or Joe Biden have offered allowing Iraq to go back to it's old, more natural borders.

But this administration decided that they would "Berlinize" Baghdad by putting up a 12 foot, 3 mile wall. Because, as we all know, people really like being caged in by a foreign occupier. Plus, it's no surprise that this naive administration would surmize that people who are willing to blow themselves up won't want to walk a little or get a ladder.

The time has come to end this madness. The time has come to take responsibility and go forward. The time has come to end the neoconservative pork barrell program that was sold as an imminent threat by those who were thirsty for Iraq's oil and chomping at the bit to make their money in Iraq. It wasn't an imminent, grave or even growing threat. If anything, it was a nuisance and a boxed in one at that according to Colin Powell before the invasion. And it is not "too big to kill." Don't believe the hype.

Today, we hear cries of leaving behind mass carnage and chaos as if that isn't the case today. And based on this administration's track record, i'm willing to take my chances with another direction. If we ever get out of Iraq, then maybe we can actually focus on bringing to justice those who killed over 3000 americans on September 11th, 2001.

Till then, Osama Bin Laden and his cronies will just sit back and laugh as we drain our resources, people and credibility in Iraq.





"

Comments
on Apr 26, 2007
House Minority Leader Rep. John A. Boehner, Ohio Republican, questioned Democrats' sincerity in cutting pork because the supplemental military spending bill that narrowly passed the Democratic-led House last month was filled with an estimated $20 billion in pork projects.
    "As a member [of Congress] who doesn't do earmarks, I know [the president's goal] is achievable," Mr. Boehner said. "But if you use the [Iraq war] supplemental appropriations bill Democrats just passed as a guidepost for pork-barrel spending to come, I don't think there is cause for optimism."
on Apr 26, 2007
The term "pork barrel" stems back to the early 1800s when the popular meat was packed that way, and hungry farm hands reached in for slabs of salt pork. In 1879, it was adopted as political slang to mean goodies for the local district paid for by the taxpayers at large. How you have managed to equate the war in Iraq with pork barrel spending is … an amazing feat!
on Apr 26, 2007
Just couldn't let it stand there though!

You are completely wrong in your talking points rendition; nonetheless, it is your right to do so. Additionally, I think you need to re-research the potential ramifications that could result in a premature exit from Iraq. The Islamofascists psyche is for the most part, unfathomable through western philosophy. Feel free to play all the word games you like though. We were not wrong in our initial analysis and the engagement was spot on. We erred in the aftermath because we didn’t understand the mindset of the Muslims, both friendly and unfriendly and we are still paying for that mistake, but we do have a better grasp now. Are you really willing to take the risk that all will be well if we just leave as things exist at present? How can you possibly be so confident … maybe because the liberal elitists say so … after all, we all KNOW that politicians DON’T lie! (unless of course they are Republicans)
on Apr 27, 2007
You are completely wrong in your talking points rendition;


boob...you are obviously a bush loyalist, which is your right. and if you think i am a democrat or a "liberal" you obviously have no clue about me. the fact is that your point of view, which is the administration point of view (the only talking points i see here) have no credibility with anyone except your little club. but only a simpleton who sees things in black and white would make the charges you do against me. sorry to dissapoint you, but i'm not a democrat or republican. i am not a conservative or a liberal. i am a libertarian. it would be fair to call me a progressive libertarina, i do believe in progress. did i just rattle off libertarian talking points or did you just accuse me of being someone i am not like someone who was incapable of seeing beyond partisan punditry in the black and white world they live in?

i stand by my words, depite your loyalist, uncredible bloviation. and the "we were wrong about everything before, but are right about everything now" boasting is laughable. i was against this war since it was suggested. i KNEW and UNDERSTOOD the situation in the REAL world like 25% of this country did. how dare you act like i should "go re-research" things to get up to "your " level of understanding? it is YOU that need some re-thinking and access to some actual knowledge.

yeah, i'm confident that my view that we need to leave iraq is correct. i've been correct all along. (and don't take that as bragging, it's not, it's a reference of credibility) the people that i trust, the ones who actually understand the middle east, have been correct as well. why on earth would i toss all that aside to believe dick cheney, who is wrong on everything, and abuses his office to try to manipulate and surpress the truth?

you seem to think that those of us opposed to the iraq war are all giddy and happy we are getting our clocks cleaned as baghdad bob predicted...i got news for ya pal...we're not. we WANTED TO BE WRONG about this. this is a F*CKING embarrassment.

how disgusting is it that baghdad bob has been more accurate than dick cheney? i can't speak for you, but it's a disgrace to me.

i want to see this country safe and secure, just like every other good american. most of which are finally realizing that this administration, which are a bunch of neoconservative incompetents that value loyalty far more than competence and experience by an stretch of the imagination.

in my view, it is REPUBLICANS that should be pissed off at what these "boobs" have done to our country. the way they have recklessly handled our foreign policy, not just in iraq, but everywhere. there are a lot of good republicans out there...but defending this administration as if they were amongst them is a serious example of poor judgement in my view.

i want to see us win in the world. but the only way we will be successful is to be smarter than them. not by bullying them as our egos want to. it's time you stopped listening to people who have been wrong since day 1 and are wrong today. i'm not asking you to "go liberal" sparky, be a republican, be a conservative. listen to guys like chuck hagel, a good conservative.

on the other hand, if you follow the hate speech filled "vote democrat and die" crowd, and see everyone but conservative republicans as "the enemy" it's no surprise that you can't comprehend the facts and continue to defend this undefensable administration.

on Apr 29, 2007
yeah, i'm confident that my view that we need to leave iraq is correct. i've been correct all along. (and don't take that as bragging, it's not, it's a reference of credibility)


as i asked in a another thread then why do we need to wait a year and a half to get out


the people that i trust, the ones who actually understand the middle east, have been correct as well. why on earth would i toss all that aside to believe dick cheney,


who are these people not the speaker of the house or the senate majority leader i hope they lied to their own party to get their position as leaders

i am beginning to think that your a muslim
on Apr 30, 2007
who are these people not the speaker of the house or the senate majority leader i hope they lied to their own party to get their position as leaders


23 senators did not vote for the war authorization bill. 133 house members voted against the iraq war resolution. that number includes 6 republicans and 1 independent. that number also includes nanci pelosi, who voted against the war. tell me what she lied about?

as far as reid goes, i've written about my feelings on him, and they are not very favorable. i've called for his resignation of his leadership post.

WWW Link

and guess again,,,i'm not a muslim. with a name like sean conners you guessed muslim, eh?

lmao

on Apr 30, 2007
nanci pelosi, who voted against the war. tell me what she lied about?


she promised secound position to one person for her support to be speaker and then gave it to someone else

what about

cashis clay

no i didn't spell it right
on Apr 30, 2007
she promised secound position to one person for her support to be speaker and then gave it to someone else


she promised her support to john murtha,,,murtha ran for the post, she did support him and he lost. where did she lie? majority leader is elected by the party's house members, it's not appointed. she couldn't "give it" to anyone, nor could she, nor could she even promise it. get your facts straight if you are going to insist on starting arguments on my blog articles.

what about

cashis clay

no i didn't spell it right


what about him?

on Apr 30, 2007
he is a muslim

what about him?


on Apr 30, 2007
she promised her support to john murtha


she promised her support to another and then supported murtha and he lost
on Apr 30, 2007
he is a muslim


so? he wasn't a muslim until he became muhammad ali. and if you are somehow stretching to compare that to my name, sean conners is about as irish as one can get. and if ya know anything bout irish history, some of us are catholic, some of us are protestant.

if i remember correctly, cassius is of roman origin. i don't know where clay comes from, but considering his roots, and his decision to change his name, assuming that it was his "slave name" would be a logical, if not safe bet. that is why many black muslims changed their names when converting to islam.

but i'm a white irishman with a catholic upbringing...where is the comparison?
on Apr 30, 2007
no he didnt become myhammad ali until he become a muslim

just saying you don't have to have a muslim sounding name to be a muslim or you could be using a nickname

and wouldn't irish be o'conners

his decision to change his name, assuming that it was his "slave name" would be a logical


and in doing so he dishonored his father
on Apr 30, 2007
daniel...just run along now , son...you are grasping at straws trying to "get me" on something...and at this point, not even saying anything that remotely relates to the subject of the article.

but just to answer your points (the last time i am wasting my time on this nosense...

no he didnt become myhammad ali until he become a muslim


i don't know what you are trying to say here,,,but the point i made is that ali announced his name change atthe same time that he announced his faith conversion to the nation of islam...

from an article on him ....Shortly after the fight, Cassius Clay startled the sports world by announcing that he had joined the Nation of Islam and had changed his name to Muhammad Ali.

full article here...WWW Link

just saying you don't have to have a muslim sounding name to be a muslim or you could be using a nickname


but it would be nice if you had some facts or evidence before attempting to tell me who i am. if you don't know, which it's obvious you don't, then it's best to keep your mouth shut.

and wouldn't irish be o'conners


o'connor is an irish name, as is connor, conners, o'conner and i'm sure a few other variations including the one you cite. again, it's not very polite to come onto my space and try to tell me who i am. if you have questions, feel free to ask. i have shared many aspects of my life with people. although not everything in my life is for public display, i am happy to answer most questions. and sean conners is my real, birth given, name. and that is well known around here. i put my name behind what i write, unlike others who hide behind an alias (which is their decision and choice). i've been online under either my name or "sconn1" (when using my name wasn't possible on various sites) since the days of the "BBS" and on the full blown net since around 92-93.

fyi,,,a couple of things about me to save time (call it "faq" if you will). most, if not all of this has been discussed on this and other sites before...but i thought i should catch you up so i don't have to

*my party affiliation is libertarian. if you are unfamiliar with them, i will be more than happy to give ya a link or you can google the libertarian party. i would be considered more of the "civil" or "social" libertarian vein. some of my positions are conservative by public standards, some liberal, and some neither. and like anyone, i hardly agree with every plank of their platform. i have no "ideology" in the traditional sense and often don't view things like the pundits would like me to. since i am beholden to no one and am not running for anything, i find it silly to hold any political view like a religious view. positions can change as facts do.

*i am primarily irish, tho there is a lil mix in there, it's all european.

* i don't personally practice any religion in the "organized religion" sense. i am a "raised catholic." 1 of my son has done a couple of years in catholic school and his mother (my wife) still actively practices. my views on religion are complex, and really, i don't feel like spelling it all out here.

* during george sr's tenure as president, i held office as a republican.

* i have voted for democrats, republicans and independents.

* i live in newark, delaware. i am from pittsburgh, pa.

* i'm 40 years old, married, 2 boys,,,8 and 2 with 1 more due in may.

* our household income is in the low 6 figures on average. in my life, i have had more than i could spend and have lived in my truck. but as i get older, those numbers have leveled out on the whole.

*politics is a passion of mine. political science was my major. music is my life. i love discussing both subjects as long as anyone respects my blog rules which include not being rude or disrespectful to your host here,,,me.

*i am not interested in arguing about any of the above...i know who i am.

that should help ya not make wild assumptions about me there dan...if ya have any questions about me, feel free to ask. i don't promise to answer any personal question about myself,,,but i am usually happy to.



on May 02, 2007
i think he does protest to much
on May 04, 2007
You are completely wrong in your talking points rendition


talking points? who's talking points?

We were not wrong in our initial analysis and the engagement was spot on.


wrong! and the more time that goes on, the more that bores out. as far as my opposition goes, it goes back to well before we invaded, as the facts were out there...they were just ignored in favor of propoganda and political grandstanding. in the 90's, saddam became "the guy" everyone could be against. so, every time a politician wanted to repair a reputation of being soft or weak, they could just speak out against saddam hussein and talk tough.

Iraq was not a threat to us or really anyone else. and neither is iran a threat to us now. if you listen carefully, the only claims that are seriously made is that nuclear capability will make them a regional threat, a threat to isreal...not us. and if they are not a threat to us, we have no business going to war with them.

and don't give me the "what if they give a bomb to a terrorist?" crap. i'd be much more worried about the 40K nukes that are still in russia, et al...not to mention the multitudes in pakistan, where the taliban and al quaeda do have a very real safe haven that we are ignoring. and by the way, pakistan can strike us. they have the F16's to do it. we sold them to them. we did it despite knowing they had broken their treaties cause cheney wanted profits and didn't give a damn about this country when he was defense secretary.

we do have a better grasp now. Are you really willing to take the risk that all will be well if we just leave as things exist at present? How can you possibly be so confident … maybe because the liberal elitists say so …


if you were me, and understood this situation for a very long time, unlike them...and had been right about just about everything when they have been wrong about everything...who would you trust? yourself or the people who had been wrong all along? in what part of life do you commonly go with the people who have been wrong consistantly over the people who have been right?

your little "liberal" inferences are funny...you should read more of my stuff before slandering me like that. i'm a libertarian, and have the voter id card to prove it.