So are yours. You pontificate and manufacture relationships. But I have been there, and you have not. That is a fact.

where did i analogize in ths thread?

Your analogies are as silly and perhaps more so than Brads. There is nothing in it that even remotely approaches cause and effect as you take out all that is not germaine to your point. And that makes your point as relevant as Pirates. Sorry, Facts win out over highbrow theory. And bad one at that.

you have provided exactly zero in the way of facts here....all you have done is try to put me down,,,,good try,,,actually, it wasn't so good, you are usually not so inept and lame.

You're kidding, right?

no, i'm not,,,where are the facts people?

Lil Whip is right. --DrG

Oh good God! Doc and LW agreeing on anything is a sure sign that the end is near!

Obviously you have a body of work, beyond the 8 years you site, to prove your theory. Please, if you would, cite the school of thought in economics that proposes that more money in the hands of the consumer actually lowers prices and inflation. What's that theory called so I can look it up?

What economist said that if you raise minimum wage, unemployment goes down? Not even YOUR figures play out. You cite the 1990 and 91 minimum wage hike. Here's the result:

"Unemployment rate 1990-1997, by month. 1990: 5.4, 5.3, 5.2, 5.4, 5.4, 5.2, 5.5, 5.7, 5.9, 5.9, 6.2, 6.3 1991: 6.4, 6.6, 6.8, 6.7, 6.9, 6.9, 6.8, 6.9, 6.9, 7.0, 7.0, 7.3 1992: 7.3, 7.4, 7.4, 7.4, 7.6, 7.8, 7.7, 7.6, 7.6, 7.3, 7.4, 7.4 1993: 7.3, 7.1, 7.0, 7.1, 7.1, 7.0, 6.9, 6.8, 6.7, 6.8, 6.6, 6.5 1994: 6.6, 6.6, 6.5, 6.4, 6.1, 6.1, 6.1, 6.0, 5.9, 5.8, 5.6, 5.5 1995: 5.6, 5.4, 5.4, 5.8, 5.6, 5.6, 5.7, 5.7, 5.6, 5.5, 5.6, 5.6 1996: 5.6, 5.5, 5.5, 5.6, 5.6, 5.3, 5.5, 5.1, 5.2, 5.2, 5.4, 5.4 1997: 5.3, 5.2, 5.2, 5.1, 4.9, 5.0, 4.9, 4.8, 4.9, 4.7, 4.6, 4.7"

No one can look at that and claim that unemployment is going down in 90, 91, 92, OR 93. It doesn't even recover until 95, and it doesn't drop to the levels you are talking about until the dot com boom created millions of jobs.

You need to simply face the fact that you are just carrying on the same, tired, failed socialist propaganda. Keynesian economics doesn't agree with what you are saying, neither does supply-side economics. Please, tell me what school of thought believes that raising wages lowers unemployment and doesn't raise prices...

As much as I like to read all these facts that i don't understand, there is one thing I do understand that no one seems to point out at all. I work 2 jobs. On my day job, full-time, I earn $11 an hour. On my night job, part-time, I earn $10 an hour. I struggle a little to keep up with my bills, granted some I shouldn't even have if I can't afford them, but I can't live without satellite or Internet. Maybe someone here can explain to me how exactly will $7.25 will somehow get me out of poverty? How exactly will $7.25, within 2 years I believe, will somehow make my life better? Let's see, a full time employee with the previous minimum of $5.15 an hour made $206 a week before taxes and a part-time employee (say 25 hours a week) makes $125.75 a week before taxes. Hardly a paycheck to live off of. Now these same people will make $290 a week full-time and $181.25 a week part time before taxes. Again, how will $84 (full-time) and $55.50 (part-time) a week, more, will change anyones lifestyle?

Look I'm all for raising minimum wage. I was there once and it would have been nice to make more money when I was 18 years then $5.25 an hour. But if the Democrats are gonna argue that this is to help the poor, hows about they do a real minimum wage hike? Hows about $10 an hour? I know this would be worse than what $7.25 an hour would do to jobs and other things as LW and Drguy said (I agree with them BTW) but don't try to make it seems as if somehow you actually made a difference in their lives. $2 an hour from a wage as low as $5.15 an hour is hardly something to celebrat as if they have won the lottery or something like it.

Sorry Sean, throw all the numbers you want. The reality of life is $7.25 an hour is not a wage to support a family, especially when both parents have to work at these wages in order to actually make enough risking leaving their children alone at home or having to pay a ton in childcare which I see no point if one of them is working just to pay someone else. In these times teen are alone more often than before and crime rates amongst teens continues to raise because parents are not around to keep an eye on them cause they are working minimum wage jobs in order to support them.

What we need to do is focus more on educating people rather than just throwing more money at them. Hows about we teach people to earn this money rather than have to give it to them without gaining any new skills. Education is the key to success in life, not more money for the same skills.

Obviously you have a body of work, beyond the 8 years you site, to prove your theory. Please, if you would, cite the school of thought in economics that proposes that more money in the hands of the consumer actually lowers prices and inflation. What's that theory called so I can look it up?

Give it up Bakerstreet. He may not be the col, but he's just like him. Present him with undeniable facts and he abandons the thread.

I'm a little confused.

Libertarians do come in all stripes and colors, but I've yet to see one issue besides pot legalizatrion where you are on the same side as the LP. You sound more like a Green to me, frankly.

I've got an idea. Why don't we raise minimum wage to $100 an hour? Then we can all retire millionaires! After all, since minimum wage increases don't affect inflation, why not go for the full monty instead of just giving a "meager" 20% increase.

"i haven't said anything about brad and his theory on global warming (and have no idea what it is or what you are talkin bout) so this is just red herring rhetoric...."

I missed a theory on pirates and global warming. Ok now I've heard that wow. Couldn't have done without my fall down 15 flights of stairs laugh for the day. Almost got hit with a bus on my way out the lobby.

Hey I've got a theory about farts underwater causing cheese to taste better eaten after midnight anybody wanna hear about it anybody anybody?

"maybe the combo of raising wages and lowering taxes is the way to go...more money in people's pockets, and more receits could mean more tax revenue."

Yeah at the risk of overheating the economy or causing needless inflation with no real economic growth.

"who's to say our next big industry boom isn't just around the corner"

nano technology

"It's like someone demanding proof of gravity."

Well lets here your theory on that. Does it involve pirates?

"You're kidding, right? Or are you so deluded that....oh, nevermind. It's not worth my time or energy."

Smart beyond her years. Do you have a phone number?

"In the past week, I have found myself in agreement with people I never thought possible, cacto, Dan Greene, shadesofgrey, Loca, Sean on another topic...and now I have the final proof I need."

Really?

"No one can look at that and claim that unemployment is going down in 90, 91, 92, OR 93. It doesn't even recover until 95, and it doesn't drop to the levels you are talking about until the dot com boom created millions of jobs."

Hmmm according the chart just above the post it appears that the % peaks in the summer of 92 and starts a steady downtrend in fall 92 Winter 93. By 1995, the unemployment rate is down 2% off the peak and stays largely there until 2 years later.

Maybe we are looking at different numbers or maybe you are mentally incapable of distinguishing the meaning of integers or perhaps just mentally incapable in general.

Perhaps a chart would help. Open excel, copy and paste, click ok, look for the line that begins to fall in summer of 92, watch it continue to fall until 1997.

"Maybe someone here can explain to me how exactly will $7.25 will somehow get me out of poverty?... I work 2 jobs. On my day job, full-time, I earn $11 an hour. On my night job, part-time, I earn $10 an hour..."

You don't live in poverty.

"...but I can't live without satellite or Internet."

Can't and won't are two different things. "Can't" is living without food or water, "won't" is living without satellite or internet.

"But if the Democrats are gonna argue that this is to help the poor, hows about they do a real minimum wage hike? Hows about $10 an hour?"

Giving people more power then they have too, to get your vote isn't what they got elected for. Doubling the minimum wage would have adverse effects on the economy, because that would be a dumping of money into a market, and effectively lower prices a very great degree. Inflation would definitely be very much more pronounced then going from $5.15 to $7.25. The degree is due to the number of people working between $5.15-$7.25 vs $5.15-$10.00.

Many more people would be making much more money. Many more businesses would be unable to support that many more employees on payrolls.

"The reality of life is $7.25 an hour is not a wage to support a family..."

Then the obvious choice is don't have kids when you cannot afford to provide for them.

"especially when both parents have to work at these wages in order to actually make enough"

Employment is at will in this nation, nobody is forcing you to work, if you want to eat, want to drive, want to participate then great if not, nobody forces you to do so. Nobody also forces you to stay in a minimum wage job. Educate yourself, build skills, market your abilities, and you can secure employment well above minimum wage.

"...children alone at home or having to pay a ton in childcare which I see no point if one of them is working just to pay someone else."

Everybody has to make sacrifices, in economics, it's called opportunity costs. Having both parents work, means during the time they work the cost of that, is the opportunity to be at home with their kids. For some families the opportunity of having a parent in the home outweighs the value of working during that time.

"Education is the key to success in life, not more money for the same skills."

An excellent point.

"How is a minimum wage hike, whether it's to $7.25 or even, as you suggested, $10.00 an hour going to help the poor when the majority of them aren't even working in the first place?"

It isn't, why would we need to help them by raising minimum wage if they don't fucking work? Are you a turnip or why do you ask stupid questions like that? Obviously the idea is to raise the minimum wage of working people not those that choose not to work.

"I've got an idea. Why don't we raise minimum wage to $100 an hour?" LOL. Yeah, like Whip's ideas for saving the Samoans from a pitiful life in poverty.

"Perhaps a chart would help. Open excel, copy and paste, click ok, look for the line that begins to fall in summer of 92, watch it continue to fall until 1997."

Maybe you aren't paying attention to the assertion Sean made. The assertion was that higher minimum wage doesn't increase unemployment. The supposed "proof" was that unemployment was 5.4% in 1990, and in 1998 it was under 5%.

What was omitted was that it spiked to well over 7% in between. Not that it matters, because you are just here to flame anyone you can get a shot at on either side.

LW

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you 110%. I merely suggested the idea if we they gonna do it anyways and they really want to make a difference as they claim, why not make a real impact and actually give them something they can really work on. $7.25 an hour will not get anyone on their feet that have families.

BTW, I did read the article and it was great, just not been getting a lot of sleep lately due to my 2 jobs so I have not had time to get my mind together and write a proper response. Besides there are people there that have said more than I could ever. You are hitting the nail better than Mr. Miyagi (from Karate Kid) when he was building the small house in his yard.

<--- is not enough so multiply it by 20.

"What was omitted was that it spiked to well over 7% in between. Not that it matters, because you are just here to flame anyone you can get a shot at on either side."

Wow you are a quick one.

What real purpose are you here for?

Do you prefer charcoal or propane, flame that is. Oh ho ho too cute.

"What was omitted was that it spiked to well over 7% in between. Not that it matters, because you are just here to flame anyone you can get a shot at on either side." Wow you are a quick one. What real purpose are you here for? Do you prefer charcoal or propane, flame that is. Oh ho ho too cute.

Cute? Maybe. But dead on correct!

If $7 is a good minimum wage, why not $20?  If having a minimum wage is a good idea, then let's have it be much much higher. 

If $7 is a good minimum wage, why not $20? If having a minimum wage is a good idea, then let's have it be much much higher.

Hell! I dont like making $30/hr. Let do $50 or $100! Wont hurt, right?

I called $100 first lol.