Bakerstreet, what's the big deal if a product makes someone intoxicated? Why do you object to occasional intoxication so much? I know people who get drunk every weekend. Would you have as much objection to them as you do to someone who smokes pot every weekend?

And just because his argument doesn't address *your* objections doesn't mean its not an argument. You're saying it's not an effective argument *to you*.

thanks for the "mudslide" coment...actually, history suggests differently. alchohol is a great example. look at how much light beer is sold vs. grain alchohol.

one of the problems with reasoning as such makes the assumption that all these drugs like marijuana compared to cocaine is that they all do "the same thing." people who have never experienced any of these substances tend to oversimplify this and assume cocaine and marijuana both get you high,,,but maybe cocaine is just a little more intense. to read about each of these substanceswould also make that assumption. in a medical journal, both would be described as "giving a sense of euphoria or well being, etc..." and have sim. "side effects." in reality however, the "high" from pot vs. cocaine are like living in 2 different countries. to try to describe that difference would bemost likely non productive. but let me just say that i enjoy pot,,,but the feeling associated with cocaine is hardly attractive to me,,,been there, done that, etc...

someone who has experienced both pot and alchohol can possibly get this as the same analogy is true. both will get you "high" if you want to be real generic about it...but the actual feelings and effects are much different.

actually sir,,,democracy isn't about getting 51% or any majority for that matter and then proceed to crush the minority opinion. if you think that,,,then i am afraid you need a civics lesson before attacking this discussion.

thank you for the comments...much appreciated

the whole keep it illegal to keep the bar low arguement is about the same as the "gateway" drug arguement. and both have been shown to not be true. whereas sometimes a small spike can be shown after a law change,,,long term, people settle down. and prohibition doesn't keep anything out of anyone's hands, it just lines the pockets of the sellers by allowing them to inflate prices. when i was your age, and still today, it was easier to find coke than pot any day.so even if we discount that and say availability is the same,,,millions more choose pot over coke every day.

legalizing marijuana won't make it easier to get folks,,,it's already easy. if your local dealer is out, you can order it online...and have it overnighted to your door.

as far as the "mailase" goes,,,,your naivity shows that you are probably not aware of who smokes pot and who doesn't...also, are you trying to suggest that someone who is a little laid back and relaxed is somehow more offensive than a drunk slurring their speech, stumbling around, throwing up and wrecking their car?

thanks again for the kind words muggaz....

So we need another government sanctioned product for people who die on the road and get into fights?The basic fact people overlook is that getting drunk is the abuse of alcohol, and millions of people use alcohol as a beverage every day without abusing it, without getting drunk For thousands of years it was the primary source of drink in most cultures and the world wasn't destroyed by alcoholism, and drunkards were still singled out as abusers.On the other hand intoxication is the sole purpose of MJ. I see a huge difference.

1st off...there is no evidence backing up your claims about accidents and fights...cops are trained to detect pot just the same as detecting alchohol on a driver. 2ndly, since when are pot smokers known for fighting? that's the drinkers and coke heads pal....

you are really clueless when it comes to pot use...most pot smokers use pot every day in the same way people use alchohol. to assume everyone is just smoking as much as possible to get as wasted as possible is just a lie. most people i know like to take a toke or 2 for a light, mild relaxation buzz,,,,not the abuse you describe.

For those enjoying this article,,,please check out the "Can You Buy Pot On the Internet?" article i wrote,,,it's also on this blog under that title...if you liked this piece,,,you'll LOVE that one:)

http://www.zetatalk.com/shelter/tshlx029.htm:

Fuel:
The hydrocarbons in hemp can be processed into a wide range of biomass energy sources, from fuel pellets to liquid fuels and gas. Hemp seed oil can be chemically combined easily with 15% methanol to provide a premium diesel fuel substitute. This hemp bio-diesel fuel burns 70% cleaner than petroleum diesel in soot and particulate pollution. By burning cleaner, hemp fuel would help to reduce acid rain. Furthermore, the industrial use of fossil fuels increases the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere; however, hemp flues maintain the earth's natural O2/CO2 balance. Finally hemp is renewable very quickly, while fossil fuels take thousands of years to renew. Development of hemp based biofuels could significantly reduce our consumption of fossil fuels. Hemp may also be used to produce ethanol (grain alcohol.) The United States government has developed a way to make this automobile fuel additive from cellulosic biomass. Hemp is an excellent source of high quality cellulosic biomass. One other way to use hemp as fuel is to use the oil from the hemp seed - some diesel engines can run on pure pressed hemp seed oil. However, the oil is more useful for other purposes, even if we could produce and press enough hemp seed to power many millions of cars.

XX: My point was, beer is a beverage that happens also to be an intoxicant if used in excessive amounts. MJ is an intoxicant... period. No other use. If you abuse alcohol, you get drunk, if you use pot, you become intoxicated. There is a big difference.

sorry,,,but you are really off the mark there,,,most people i know who smoke usually prefer a small amount at ta time,,,just like the people who enjoy a drink or 2 at home after work...they just prefer pot to booze. your assertion that pot instantly puts you "on another planet" is false. just like with booze, there are levels of intoxication,,,and don't kid yourself, even tho you may not be legally too drunk to drive, 1 drink does cause a certain level of intoxication.

what are the other uses of booze aside from getting intoxicated (regardless if that level is a light 1 beer buzz or a drunken stupor)???? hemp (which is the male version of pot, generally much less "intoxicating") has been shown to have many other uses and i'll put up the FACT that it is a renewable energy source that could almost instantly end our need for Arab oil to alchohol's ability to strip paint or cause fires.

Why should anyone legalize any substance and profit legally from it when it's illegal status provides a mean of a kind of control over the population and shifts certain portions of it from free markets to controlled markers (aka the recent business model of using prison population as underpaid workforce)? Definitely, the longer drugs are forbidden, the longer the government and corporations would benefit from it's collaterial damage.

well,,,that is an excellent point...some of us realized a long time ago that the drug war is really a marijuana war on the whole,,,cause that's the only guys they can catch and that much of that war wasn't against drugs, but against the otherwise law abiding citizens of this country. ..interestingly enough, it isn't the anti drug groups that have kept marijuana illegal,,,,but it has been the pharmacutical and energy lobbies that have fought the hardest...and some of us know why.

Bakerstreet, what's the big deal if a product makes someone intoxicated? Why do you object to occasional intoxication so much? I know people who get drunk every weekend.

baker seems to not be able to distinguish people who enjoy a nice pot buzz vs what he has in his mind as a bunch of wasted, stoned hippies raping his daughter or something,,,if they are not too lazy...how he describes users just shows how distant he is from the actual facts. indeed, people have strived to "alter their conciousness" since the beginning of time,,,that desire is human,,,it isn't bad as the fundamentalist puritan christian crowd would like you to believe.

the way baker looks at people who enjoy pot reminds me of when i have sat in business meetings in the past, and when the topic of the grateful dead would come up...inevitably someone would comment about what "dirty, disgusting, filthy hippies " they were, not realizing they were speaking to one. and the "deadhead" in front of them had a nicer suit, better haircut and such than the person complaining.

of course, when the dead would come to town, news stations would go out and try to find the wildest looking hippie they could, ignoring the 10's of 1000's of normal looking people who enjoyed the music every bit as much as the dreadlocked, patchwork pants, petchoulli wearing freak they searched high and low for. i always figured that the john and jane six packs sitting at home would assume that everyone there was "like that guy" and from baker's comments and the rest of my own experience, i can say,,,yeah, i was right.

JUST POSTED....smuggling pot from jamaica, a true story...the continuing adventures of Sam....check it out on this blog site:)

heh, a lot of the same thing over and over. I've known many people in my life that smoked pot, and no not all of them acted like Cheech and Chong, but I never knew anyone that wanted to smoke pot without getting high from it. I mean it is a silly argument, really. The equivalent of "Oh, yeah, we want to legalize pot, but we don't want to get that high or anything, just a little..."

Bakerstreet, what's the big deal if a product makes someone intoxicated? Why do you object to occasional intoxication so much? I know people who get drunk every weekend.

Intoxication is frowned upon universally, you overlook that? You can't be trying to say that one beer = one joint in the level of intoxication. You just take a puff and stubb it out? I think it is kind of telling that these conversations imply that everyone who drinks alcohol gets a buzz. Do you know how many billions of gallons are consumed of beer and wine worldwide? Intoxication is the aberation, the abuse of the substance. With MJ, even if you just want a 'little', it is the point.

Once again, back to the 'Democracy" thing. People don't want pot to be legal, period. We've had 50 years of this diatribe blown in our face, and guess what, we still don't want it legal. Make all the hemp will save the world rants you want, but in 50 years no one has been able to show enough proof of insipid arguments like " it is a renewable energy source that could almost instantly end our need for Arab oil" to make it palatable to legalize. , gah.

Come on. You rant against stereotypes and then you preach them. You act shocked that 'stoners' exist and pretend that the average person who smokes pot barely gets a buzz and is really wanting it legalized so they can save the earth with hemp. Just as stereotypical and dated as your 'dead head' analogy.

In the end, with all the ranting, the point isn't getting being accepted. If you can't make a decent point in 50 years, then maybe it isn't the world that is deluded.